10:00:46 #startmeeting 10:00:46 Meeting started Wed Feb 2 10:00:46 2011 UTC. The chair is rangi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 10:00:46 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 10:00:47 * chris_n feels a bit better about just having dsl outages to deal with now 10:00:59 #topic Introductions 10:01:15 * rangi is chris cormack, release manager 3.4 10:01:28 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT, release maintainer 3.0 10:01:30 * chris_n is Chris Nighswonger, release maintainer 3.2 10:01:32 * druthb is D Ruth Bavousett, ByWater Solutions 10:01:34 Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS 10:01:35 AG is known as Amit Gupta Nucsoft Osslabs, Bangalore 10:01:45 * jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, ByWater Solutions 10:01:46 Zeno Tajoli, CILEA 10:01:47 * sekjal is Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions 10:01:51 Joann Ransom, HLT, NZ 10:01:52 Nate: Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions 10:01:54 Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe Ltd 10:01:56 * davi is Davi Diaz, worker for software.coop 10:01:57 Koustubha Kale Anant Coorporation, VPM, Thane and Granthalaya.org 10:02:22 Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 10:02:30 * slef is MJ Ray, worker-owner of software.coop 10:03:10 * wasabi_love -> Mason James, KohaAloha, NZ 10:03:14 Sandeep Bhavsar Librarian VPM's Dr. V N Bedekar Management Institute, Thane 10:03:45 anyone else? 10:04:08 right, will move on then 10:04:21 #topic Update on 3.2 10:04:26 over to your chris_n 10:04:31 right 10:04:33 3.2.x maintenance continues to move along well. 10:04:33 3.2.3 was released on 22 Jan as scheduled thanks to the hard work of developers, QA, and the 3.4 RM. 10:04:33 We are 12 commits toward the release of 3.2.4 on 22 Feb. 10:04:33 And that's all. 10:04:44 :) 10:05:00 congrats 10:05:00 nothing anyone can do to make your life easier? 10:05:28 only one 10:05:49 please be sure to test application of patches against the 3.2.x branch prior to submitting 10:06:05 and if necessary, fixup and submit with [3.2.x] in the subject line 10:06:20 (if they are bugfixes applicable to 3.2 eh?) 10:06:25 right :) 10:06:30 of course 10:06:41 marking them as applicable only to 3.4 would help as well :) 10:06:51 this is something the submitter could do 10:07:28 #info please mark patches as applicable for 3.4 only if that is the case 10:07:48 #info if patches are to be applied on 3.2.x please test they apply cleanly on that branch 10:08:19 cool ... anything else about 3.2.x anyone? 10:08:36 great work, chris_n, on the regular, on-time releases! 10:08:39 thanks to all who's work has made 3.2.x maintenance run smoothly 10:08:55 s/all/everyone/ 10:09:13 * kf Katrin Fischer, BSZ 10:09:15 chris_n: test commits from the HEAD of the 3.2 branch, or the latest 3.2 tag? 10:09:34 id say head 10:09:36 HEAD 10:09:40 or something else? 10:10:45 #topic update on 3.0.x 10:10:54 First UK Public to go Koha goes live on Thursday on 3.2.3 Thanks all 10:10:55 hdl: you have anything for this? 10:11:19 ok , thanks 10:11:57 nothing new. Still have to do it 10:12:26 righto, anyone have anything to add for 3.0.x ? 10:12:31 *sigh* I'm glad you're building on the co-op's decade-ish of work, but can we keep company news releases out of the community meeting, please? There are other venues for that. 10:13:03 Its the community's achievement slef 10:13:24 ColinC: it's still off-topic. 10:13:36 and so this discussion, so moving on 10:13:45 #topic update on 3.4 10:13:53 Are ads allowed here along a meeting? 10:14:01 moving on davi 10:14:02 Are allowed anyway? 10:14:06 :) 10:14:07 ack rangi 10:14:27 moving on folks 10:14:39 3.4 update 10:14:40 ok, 3.4 is still on schedule 10:15:16 what we do have, is a fair amount of patches awaiting signoff 10:15:51 rangi: url please? 10:15:57 so i might start sending mails out, maybe 1 a week with a list of patches id like looked at 10:16:04 #note what we do have, is a fair amount of patches awaiting signoff 10:16:18 http://koha-releasemanagement.branchable.com/ 10:16:25 patches needing signoff there 10:16:30 #link http://koha-releasemanagement.branchable.com/ 10:16:30 hi all - Irma Birchall from CALYX - sorry for the late login 10:17:36 work is under way to make the biblibre patches easier to qa 10:18:14 http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5574 10:18:15 04Bug 5574: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED, 3.4 cataloguing improvements 10:18:21 see the depends on links there 10:19:37 there will be a press release later this week, but biblibre have contracted catalyst to do some qa and reformatting of their patches 10:20:29 (you may have seen one i reformatted today) 10:20:31 any more thoughts about a QA-fest sort of activity? 10:20:42 or test-fest 10:20:57 i think its a good idea, for the patches sitting in the needing signoff queue 10:21:03 but i wont have time to organise it 10:21:06 I think it's a good idea and would try to participate 10:21:06 have you already discussed teaching others how to test? 10:21:21 i will however try to send out mails to koha-devel 10:21:39 irmaB++ 10:21:55 highlighting patches that are critical etc 10:22:19 qa_mails++ 10:22:23 might be worth flagging up somethings as priorities if they are 10:22:40 good idea 10:22:50 severity could be a first order 10:23:06 ooh, Koha is listed on branchable.com 's front-page 10:23:26 kf, oleonard, and fredericd have been testing the template work 10:23:38 that is coming along well 10:24:35 do we have any volunteers to sort through the bugs with patches awaiting signoff? changing severity where it makes sense? 10:24:49 marking those that are invalid as such 10:24:59 etc 10:25:10 I can throw a couple hours at it over the next few weeks 10:25:21 thanks sekjal 10:25:25 yep, me too 10:25:42 #action sekjal and wasabi_love will spend some time organising bugs 10:25:46 yep me too with Mason's help 10:25:48 rangi, I could try to review one, to learn how to do it 10:25:59 cool 10:25:59 im hoping to have a quiet next few weeks 10:26:02 davi ++ 10:26:11 i think thats about all from me 10:26:17 does anyone have any questions? 10:26:30 i could help testing simple ones 10:26:41 yep, no probs irma 10:26:43 rangi, I will ask or contact you if I need help 10:26:48 cool 10:26:55 im pretty much always here :) 10:27:24 me too, except nights 10:27:42 if there is nothing else shall we move on to the next agenda item? 10:28:30 #topic Roles for 3.6 10:28:38 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.6 10:28:40 i could help testing simple ones/ 10:28:52 :( 10:28:58 we are halfway through 3.4 .. time to start thinking about 3.6 10:29:11 rangi have you decided on any last dates for features etc for 3.4? 10:30:03 not firm ones, i have in mind 3 weeks for feature freeze 1 week for string freeze 10:30:27 sorry late for the meeting 10:30:32 will firm those up and announce 10:30:46 k 10:30:54 translators should be provided two weeks for their work imha 10:31:27 will mean a 4 week feature freeze 10:31:43 which is end of march 10:31:47 In fact yes, two week is a minimun for a transaltion 10:31:49 But if soon announced, ppl can be prepared well enough. 10:31:59 as long as we branch off that should not be too bad heh? 10:32:05 but we shouldnt be waiting until then to start translating 10:32:07 I think it depends on the number of strings 10:32:11 that should be just finishing off 10:32:24 not_waiting++ 10:32:26 1 week can be enough, but 2 weeks are better 10:32:40 not_waiting++ 10:32:58 if we start early enough and tell people to start 1 week should be ok 10:33:13 rangi: hopefully, we won't find bugs in the translation of template toolkit... But we may have. 10:33:14 We can see the number only after TT translation 10:33:15 so about 6 to 7 weeks for new features to be submitted AND signed off 10:33:15 +1 for 2 week for translations 10:33:31 hdl: thats why we are testing that already :) 10:33:41 kmkale: approx yes 10:33:43 kmkale: and qaed 10:34:09 so if you have a feature nao or next week :) 10:34:42 * chris_n thinks its going to get mighty busy very soon :) 10:34:47 man, i'm *really* looking forward to using Koha+TT 10:34:47 of course if you miss 3.4, at least 3.6 is only another 6 months away 10:34:57 speaking of 3.6 10:35:06 people should throw their names in the ring on that page 10:35:43 If people have features that they slated for 3.4 and now will be 3.6 please update proposals accordingly 10:36:24 #info If people have features that they slated for 3.4 and now will be 3.6 please update proposals accordingly 10:36:54 slated ? 10:37:02 proposed 10:37:12 proposed/scheduled 10:39:59 ok, does anyone have anything about 3.6 roles? 10:40:04 when will we vote? next meeting? 10:40:24 good question 10:40:48 * rangi doesnt have an answer 10:41:28 when is 3.4 due for release again? Ideally the 3.6 team should be in place at that point. 10:41:39 april 22 10:41:49 meetings are beginning of march or april 10:42:00 So the vote could be at the beginning of April, to give people a bit longer to think about it. 10:42:41 perhaps at the april general meeting 10:42:42 * Brooke_ wonders if we are running Senatorial timelines now... 10:42:58 Yes, the regular April meeting 10:43:03 if branch is to be done middle of march... maybe having realase manager for 3.6 could be good for March 10:43:13 I agree hdl 10:43:18 good point 10:43:21 true 10:43:22 another month should be plenty of consideration 10:43:25 will be late march 10:43:39 but will be before the april meeting 10:43:50 even late march.... Will be before april meeting. 10:44:02 either way is workable though imho 10:44:05 We could have an extraordinary meeting 10:44:21 to vote 10:44:38 But one month to think about a proposal is fine i think 10:44:39 #idea special meeting to decide 3.6 Release team 10:44:44 having the team before branch makes sense to me - so it would be early march or an extraordinary meeting. we should note the date on the wiki page anyway. 10:45:05 so people considering it know 10:45:26 who would like to send out an email 10:45:36 pointing to the roles page 10:45:56 i think i did one, or i might have just dreamed it 10:45:57 ugh, not possible to do it in General...March? 10:46:04 I'll do that 10:46:08 that's dogsbody work 10:46:12 yes its possible 10:46:17 rangi: you did 10:46:30 to devel or general? 10:46:31 The longer we wait the more time there is to draft people into roles whether they want them or not :) 10:46:42 thd people will always wait longer 10:46:52 ok, so how likes the idea of deciding in the march general meeting? 10:46:57 * Brooke_ points to Zipf's principle. 10:46:59 s/how/who/ 10:47:04 +1 from me 10:47:06 +1 10:47:08 +1 10:47:08 March +1 10:47:14 +1 10:47:26 +-1 10:47:26 +1 10:47:26 +1 10:47:29 +1 10:47:35 +1 10:47:39 +1 10:47:56 +1 10:47:58 ++1 10:48:21 +1 10:48:44 0 10:48:44 10:48:59 +1 10:49:27 march it is… :) 10:49:34 +1 10:49:50 #agreed roles for 3.6 to be decided at the march general meeting 10:50:31 #action brooke to send an email 10:51:49 anything else about 3.6? 10:52:35 feel free to pester me anytime about release management 10:53:16 #topic irc move 10:53:31 this was a late addition to the agenda 10:53:51 Very good move! 10:53:56 any plans for big html::template to TT rewrite before 3.6? 10:54:16 wasabi_love: thats for 3.4 10:54:32 davi: sad move, but probably nessecary 10:54:36 or should we wait until after 3.6, to do that stuff? 10:54:51 wasabi_love: chris has done the work already 10:54:55 its in qa atm 10:54:59 no need to wait imho 10:55:16 chris hall has done the work, not me, i just supervised 10:55:37 chris_n: you added this to the agenda, do you have more to add? 10:55:38 (as the risk of appearing stupid: what is TT?) 10:55:45 joann: template toolkit 10:55:50 thanks 10:55:53 joann: new templating system 10:55:54 chris_n: w0w, ok - ill ask later about that… 10:56:06 The Template Toolkit (TT) is a fast and flexible template engine used primarily for building web sites but also suitable for any type of digital document creation like PDF or LaTeX. Template Toolkit, or TT for short, is based on a mini-language, rather than allowing direct perl like some of its competitors like Mason. This forces developers to only have presentation logic in... http://a.vu/w:Template_Toolkit 10:56:10 I would only like to add that I do think the move is a sad necessity 10:56:21 wasabi_love: pay attention ;) we covered it in the 3.4 item :) 10:56:22 it's a step away from the historical norm 10:56:37 which imho is not always the best move 10:56:55 but life does move on 10:57:03 that's it 10:57:26 http://template-toolkit.org/ 10:57:32 how does move to TT affect current WIP? 10:57:36 Have we heard from katipo about their IRC server? 10:57:52 cna we table the TT talk til after the meeting please 10:57:58 ok 10:57:59 it is up again. 10:58:08 yes 10:58:13 i have talked with si 10:59:03 11:38 <@si> yup, I think oftc is probably a better home for koha 10:59:36 he no longer works for citylink, where the server is, so we dont have someone we can pester 10:59:36 yes, even OFTC is even a better move than Free Node options IMHO 10:59:54 Does OFTC have any problematic policies or practices? 11:00:17 * You are now known as thd-away 11:00:17 * You are now known as thd 11:00:17 * You may not reregister 11:00:40 Will I be banned for changing my nic when away? 11:00:45 no 11:00:46 I think OFTC is under the Software for Public Interest umbrella , isn't it? 11:00:53 yes 11:00:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OFTC 11:01:06 thd: not as far as I know. It's an SPI associated project aiming to run a communications network. http://www.oftc.net/ 11:02:14 their mission looks harmonious to our aims. 11:02:35 if OFTC is good enuff for the debian-project , its prolly good enuff for us 11:02:37 more comments/questions? move on? 11:02:37 the next topic on the agenda was mine, but i think ill just point people to my blogpost on it instead 11:02:48 http://www.debian.org/News/2006/20060604 11:02:52 As long as their software is as harmonious as the mission I am happy :) 11:02:56 http://www.spi-inc.org/projects/ 11:02:59 seems there are a member 11:03:07 they are a member of SPI 11:03:16 rangi: link? 11:03:25 #topic Report on Catalyst Academy Work 11:03:36 #link http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2011/01/22/os-academy-a-big-success-for-koha/ 11:03:44 hmm 11:03:50 #topic Report on Catalyst Academy Work 11:03:52 * chris_n pings huginn 11:04:02 only the chair can change topic 11:04:06 it seems 11:04:12 ok thats all i have on that 11:04:37 at the Linux conference in Brisbane last week 11:04:38 slef: ok, to correct myself - page says asscociated projects... 11:04:57 #topic action points from last meeting 11:05:03 students from Albany high school gave apresentation 11:05:07 kf: np, lots get it wrong. Only project contributors are members. 11:05:18 #link http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-01-05-22.01.html 11:05:24 the action points are there 11:05:47 hdl to release 3.0.7 and post and end of life announcement < --- still to be done 11:06:04 nengard to ask owen about a tutorial on rebasing others patches 11:06:08 did this happen? 11:06:22 rangi: should undone ones be put as #action again? 11:06:28 good idea 11:06:46 anyone can do an #action 11:06:57 #action hdl to release 3.0.7 and post and end of life announcement 11:07:16 rangi: oops. 11:07:22 no owen or nengard, so no idea if that one happened 11:07:36 someone organise a meeting to talk about persistance <-- didnt happen 11:07:47 someone-- 11:08:15 There was some discussion just after the last meeting on the issue of license upgrade for OpenNCIP. 11:08:36 thd still going through last meetings action points 11:08:50 #action someone organise a meeting to talk about persistance 11:08:54 OK 11:09:04 chris_n send an email to the devel list if there is anything we need to know about 3.2.x 11:09:10 that happened 11:09:21 brooke with the help of wizzyrea and others to start on a draft code of conduct/ social contract thingy <-- happened 11:09:35 newsletter moved to 25th, slef and nengard to work on ideas to make it less onerous <-- move happened 11:09:41 #action slef to ask nengard and owen about the tutorial on rebasing others patches 11:09:49 ricardo has just volunteered to set up the page for the meeting <-- was done 11:10:01 #action slef, nengard and wizzyrea to work on ideas to make newsletter production easier 11:10:05 someone send out a reminder email about the meeting <-- happened also 11:10:17 because the rest of that is still on my todo 11:10:39 righto 11:11:14 #topic Kohacon11 11:11:22 who wants to speak to this? 11:12:01 #action rangi to mentor davi to review a patche awaiting signoff, if davi needs help to work out that task 11:12:17 s/patche/patch/ 11:12:35 I have no idea how this is decided, but would love to see ya all in India for KohaCon11 11:12:40 how are we going to choose kohacon location? 11:12:51 how are we choosing the location? 11:12:59 the olde fashioned way. A cage match to the death. 11:13:08 Brooke_, lol ++! 11:13:10 slef? 11:13:11 slef is probably an encyclopedia of FOSS knowledge 11:13:19 I'm happy to point at the wiki page which includes details for the UK bid and take any questions, but most of my other questions are on the wiki or email. 11:13:22 I understand that all sites really want to host it - but 2 are not going to be able to 11:13:47 isn't wahanui a robot? 11:14:02 theres 4 in the mix now joann, so 3 will miss out 11:14:10 do any wish to withdraw their bids? 11:14:15 but i guess not 11:14:17 the olde fashioned way. an IRC vote? 11:14:18 I can talk for the Kolkata, India bid 11:14:22 I'd also be interested in whether people would prefer to be in the West Country or Edinburgh, in case we bid again for 2012. 11:14:22 so we have to decide between 4 11:14:42 (the 2011 bid is West Country) 11:14:50 joann: yes, I think wahanui used to be ibot. 11:15:01 I woould be happy to answer any queries about VPM, Thane, Inia bid 11:15:11 it thins slef is a genius (does slef control it I wonder?) 11:15:13 * indradg would like to visit UK sometime :) 11:15:14 s/Inia/India/ 11:15:18 * druthb recuses. 11:15:20 Could we do the FIFA way? Decide 2011 & 2012 11:15:25 lol 11:15:27 indradg: Do you have any insight into low air fare to India from the US? 11:15:30 we voted via IRC for KohaCon2010, i think? 11:15:46 i thought the kiwis just claimed it 11:15:52 :D 11:16:05 thd, depends a bit on the port of departure 11:16:16 Albany, Newark usually has the lowest to India 11:16:19 joann: no, it stores facts 11:16:22 thd, ^^ 11:16:24 Asia's never had it. So.. 11:16:49 US to India low fare $1100 11:17:08 SandeepBhavsar: for October? 11:17:10 no one from the nepal bid here? 11:17:19 will have to be a vote of some sort I guess ... 11:17:21 ya its average 11:17:26 kmkale: the UK's never had it either and the one in Paris was shorter/smaller IIRC. 11:17:39 SandeepBhavsar: where are you looking that up? 11:17:42 what he said 11:17:48 what slef said 11:17:50 VPM Thane India 11:18:02 slef: I said Asia. 11:18:13 bid Pakistan 11:18:30 kmkale: ;-) 11:18:35 Is there any reason that two options are Nov. - Dec. instead of Oct. - Nov. 11:18:37 ? 11:18:45 Pakistan is Nepal now, unless I missed something. Yes? 11:18:49 Oak: pakistan have withdrawn the bid, in favour of nepal 11:18:53 thd, the monsoons 11:19:10 thats a good reason 11:19:18 thd, plus major festival season in india... ala christmas holidays 11:19:28 For Mumbai, monsoon is over by september 11:19:32 indradg: Are you in a monsoon free area in Thane? 11:19:36 not_experiencing_a_monsoon++ 11:19:38 Brooke_: yep, i think pakistan bid is withdrawn 11:19:43 thd, I'm in Calcutta 11:20:00 ok, so i think someone 11:20:01 thd: I am in Thane and yes in Oct/Nov no monsoons in Mumbai 11:20:04 where someone is not me 11:20:15 has to figure out some way we are going to decide 11:20:26 plus there is Diwali season. So a most appropriate time to visit India 11:20:34 and since it takes a long time to organise 11:20:38 it needs to be done soon 11:20:51 are we of a mind to take a vote tonight? 11:20:58 given that it was clearly on the agenda? 11:20:59 i dont think thats fair 11:21:03 Political stability needs to be considered too 11:21:05 not a vote wasnt 11:21:20 KohaCon2011 Proposals location and dates discussion 11:21:21 Votes have should be announced. 11:21:28 ok. 11:21:30 thd, ++1 11:21:33 well we should that then 11:21:50 thd++ 11:21:58 Some folk are very pro Asia but its hard to judge between e.g. Mumbai or Nepal 11:21:58 We should announce a vote at the next IRC meeting along with roles. 11:22:03 open voting like we did with set up og koha sub committee of hlt 11:22:06 yes, vote on Koha2011 hould be announced. 11:22:17 wait til march to announce the vote? 11:22:25 sooner the better 11:22:26 +1 11:22:27 thats cutting down the time to organise 11:22:29 what why? 11:22:35 2 big votes in one meetnig might be a bit much 11:22:41 i think it should be announced sooner 11:22:42 too bad 11:22:44 I note that we're already a bit tight for nengard's wish of September. 11:22:44 http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Withdrawal-from-KohaCon-Bid-in-favor-of-DlnetSA-Healthnet-Nepal-td3355813.html 11:22:44 and deciding for a time zone might be diffifult too 11:22:45 no more stalling 11:22:45 voting in march 11:22:47 folks have to move 11:22:49 no, annunce the vote now, do the vote on march 11:22:54 yeah 11:22:56 tajoli, ++ 11:22:57 i think the agenda item made it clear that we would talk about kohacon2011 tonight, it implied decision time to me 11:22:59 Announce now vote in March, exactly 11:23:08 yep 11:23:10 it said discussion 11:23:10 March at the bloody latest 11:23:15 not long for organisers 11:23:22 i put it on the agenda, and i certainly didnt mean decide tonight 11:23:26 why not make a wiki page and people register their vote 11:23:30 can we do it sooner than March? 11:23:36 thanks wasabi_love 11:23:38 joann, we have that 11:23:47 or make a google forms thingee and people can click on it anytime over next fortnight 11:23:50 I voted twice :) 11:23:53 we could have a separate meeting 11:23:54 The earlier the host is known, the better 11:23:55 Definitely make a decision re 2012 earlier than we did 2011 11:23:55 joann, we already have that 11:24:04 as did rangi 11:24:04 ColinC ++ 11:24:11 we have expresssions ofsupport - but is that a vote? 11:24:12 so we would not have to vote for roles and kohacon at one date 11:24:13 kf: if we did, let's make it sooner than march 11:24:18 becuase on that basis its india already 11:24:19 yeah for 2010 we had decided in 2009 11:24:27 We can use the vote on the wiki, but we nedd an 'official' annunce, and a finish date 11:24:29 joann: which india, there are 2 11:24:45 the one with the most 'votes' 11:24:55 but i voted 'voted' twice as did brooke and maybe chris 11:25:03 MMP ftw 11:25:09 I think vote must be started anew 11:25:14 Probably best one vote for person 11:25:19 yes. 11:25:21 joann, rangi I've voted for both thane and kolkata :) 11:25:23 yes, becuase that wsnt a vote 11:25:26 I agree with one vote 11:25:26 and lets do it asap 11:25:30 ++ 11:25:38 how about Valentine's Day? 11:25:46 because lotation is strictly connect with personal situation 11:25:46 Vote for your sweetheart for conference :) 11:25:48 * nengard Nicole C Engard, Doc Manager (late arrival) 11:26:12 Brooke_: do we have to send chocolate? 11:26:19 yes to gmcharlt. 11:26:35 Umm people have put in their name on wiki with the impression that its a vote 11:26:38 the page says so 11:26:49 the page says show your support 11:26:59 and the email i sent when i made that table 11:27:03 * chris_n must go now 11:27:23 does two weeks *not* work for anyone? 11:27:35 Anyway if we arrange a vote lets make it so that it does not involve wiki edits ;) 11:27:35 * Brooke_ wants to see this sorted so organisers can get a move on. 11:27:37 Brooke_, to organise a voting? 11:27:43 no 11:27:46 not to organise 11:27:48 to ACTUALLY 11:27:50 who is allowed to vote? 11:27:52 no wiki edits for voting++ 11:27:53 i find it incredibly sad that we have 2 opposing bids from india 11:28:03 in irc everyone has a vote - but there are also institutions on the wiki 11:28:23 so is it 1 vote per person 11:28:27 or per institution? 11:28:31 Ive taken a crack at tidying the page 11:28:31 http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon2011_Proposals 11:28:31 And a way to register support, I do agree with Bob that we should call 11:28:31 a vote at a meeting on irc, so I don't propose this poll is binding, 11:28:33 but just an indicative way to show support, hence I have listed 11:28:36 support for 2. 11:28:39 +1 1 vote a person 11:28:40 lets sort that point out first 11:28:46 yes i think per institution is ok 11:28:47 Is the UK out? 11:28:51 no institution votes 11:28:51 No 11:28:56 that way no one gets 2 votes. 11:28:59 I strongly support UK 11:29:03 me too 11:29:03 irc_vote++ 11:29:08 much cheper for me 11:29:13 irmaB: I'm still here. All the questions seem to be about the Asian bids, though. 11:29:16 UK is still in 11:29:24 +1 one person one vote 11:29:28 Did I miss any question? 11:29:31 UK++ 11:29:41 UK++ 11:29:41 i'd like to see the vote on a voting application of sorts - not irc and not wiki - lots of librarians still scared of irc 11:29:50 nengard++ 11:29:58 nengard, ++ 11:30:00 wondering about 1 vote per person or per institution 11:30:05 we can use google forms again like we did for conference registration 11:30:10 or some other app 11:30:12 that worked well 11:30:14 per person, plox 11:30:15 nengard, ++ 11:30:18 * Brooke_ is homeless. 11:30:21 people are attending, not institutions. 11:30:28 does google forms need registration? 11:30:32 no 11:30:35 agreed per person 11:30:37 rangi, I'll point out to you that ikiwiki has a sort of polling thing, not particularly safe against abuse though 11:30:41 I don't mind IRC voting as well. I'm also tempted to say it should ask "I would attend KohaCon in ..." rather than simply asking for support. 11:30:56 right 11:30:56 People vote and institutions are not people no matter how the law defines institutions for some purposes. 11:30:59 so 1 person per vote - lets do the +1 thing 11:31:01 slef++ 11:31:04 +1 11:31:06 +1 11:31:07 Not as something to hold people to, but because the successful thing is a popular kohacon. 11:31:11 +1 11:31:13 +1 11:31:14 +1 11:31:16 +1 11:31:17 slef++ 11:31:18 +1 11:31:19 +1 11:31:19 +1 11:31:20 +1 11:31:25 +1 11:31:33 If one of the other bids can please more people, it should win. 11:31:41 ask "I would attend KohaCon in ..." rather than simply asking for support 11:31:42 ok - 1 vote 1 person 11:31:48 and i like slefs suggestion 11:32:00 * Brooke_ has always taken it that way. 11:32:02 "I would attend KohaCon in ..." rather than simply asking for support. ++ 11:32:10 +1 11:32:16 +1 11:32:29 +1 11:32:33 so nengard 11:32:34 irmaB, ++ 11:32:38 if not IRC 11:32:42 +1 11:32:45 are you willing to tally ballots sent to you? 11:32:48 Maybe post-conference if 3012 people expressed interest in attending but only 3 did, we can ask why more usefully. 11:32:50 I_would_attend..++ 11:32:58 nengard, for the election office 11:33:04 :) 11:33:11 ?? 11:33:20 officer 11:33:22 oh - yes i'll tally them 11:33:24 "i would NOT attend if it was held in x " has merit too 11:33:26 i'll put a form up if you want 11:33:35 joann++ 11:33:40 you've been drafted for Election Judge, nengard. :P 11:33:42 we are not going to make everyone happy 11:33:48 right 11:33:52 no hard feelings implied 11:33:56 How are we going to count the votes? 11:34:01 2 questions per location - so a 6 question form 11:34:02 there is always next time 11:34:08 yep 11:34:12 thd i put a form up 11:34:16 joann: mmm, not sure. I think a comments box asking if+why any of the venues was difficult for them to say they'd attend. 11:34:17 and then share the resulting csv file 11:34:20 nengard: what was the voting/polling website you used previously? 11:34:35 wasabi_love: limesurvey IIRC? 11:34:44 oh! yes I can use that too if you want 11:34:47 by when? 11:34:48 nengard: How do we decide which wins? 11:34:56 um ... most votes? 11:34:58 doodle and google also work reasonably well 11:34:58 ah, cheers slef, 11:35:11 i'm okay with doodle or google - you all tell me where and i'll set it up today 11:35:13 nengard: plurality voting? 11:35:23 software.coop have a survey website we can use, but that's a conflict of interest 11:35:23 nengard: if we have positive andn egative votes we have to do some sort of calculation 11:35:33 would limesurvey work for the kohacon2011 voting? 11:35:38 limesurvey++ 11:35:39 i'm agreeing to put the vote together - not make the final decision based on the poll 11:35:49 wasabi_love yes 11:35:58 lets have simple questions 11:36:01 nengard: what if more people prefer some place in Asia but divide their vote between options? 11:36:03 oh c'mon 11:36:04 not +ve and -ve ones. 11:36:13 no dividing votes 11:36:16 no funny business 11:36:18 one vote 11:36:19 :) 11:36:20 one person 11:36:21 one site 11:36:23 grow a spine 11:36:24 sorry 11:36:30 go Brooke_ 11:36:33 if too many people will not attend place x, that number could be greater than x getting most yes votes )if yes votes are split) 11:36:45 i dont think we mix 11:36:53 we can organise MMPish voting *next* conference 11:36:56 I'd have one person, as many sites as you would visit. 11:36:57 why make our lives complicated 11:37:01 one man, one vote -current slogan here in Nigeria :) 11:37:02 it will take too bloody long this go round 11:37:14 But again, I've a conflict of interest :) 11:37:22 okay here is my proposal - +1 is you approve - set up limesurvey with 7 questions: 1. email address (for preventing dups) #1-#3 I will attend if koha con is in XYZ #4-#7 I will not attend if kohacon is in XYZ 11:37:22 no - it sknown 11:37:22 just vote for where you would go 11:37:36 one person, as many sites as you would visit++ 11:37:42 rngi i'm okay with that too 11:37:46 yep - i think nicoles suggestion too hard 11:37:52 Brooke_ divided vote is when most people prefer something other than X but X wins in plurality because most people voted for Y or Z. 11:37:54 no -ve questions please 11:37:58 joann - that was your suggestion! :) hehe 11:38:04 you said we should ask where peopel won't go 11:38:19 i can go to india or uk. just prefer UK 11:38:20 i know - ive changed my mind 11:38:21 nengard, I'll be attending the next Kohacon wherever it may be held... so is not answering (i wont attend) can be an option? 11:38:39 one person one vote, as many sites as you would visit & as many sites you will not visit ++ 11:38:43 what about : ranking them 1-4 and less points wins 11:38:51 indradg++ 11:38:51 But will attend India too if she wins 11:38:53 omg 11:39:00 okay so 4 question - email and where will you go - should we do like they do on code4lib and let people rank them? 11:39:05 how about, just vote for the places yuo would go to 11:39:07 joann++ 11:39:17 one vote ++ 11:39:19 if you would go to them all, just vote for the one you like the best 11:39:20 rangi, ++ KISS works 11:39:27 rangi++ 11:39:35 I think that ranking is the simplest for now. 11:39:40 so: 1 vote for your favourite place. 11:39:43 * rangi is tired and wants to go to bed 11:39:48 me too .. 11:39:54 i'll do whatever the most of you want 11:39:56 i'm not particular 11:39:59 cna we end the meeting and people can keep talking about voting systems when im sleeping 11:40:10 rank as much locations as you want ++ 11:40:12 you're the chair, dear. 11:40:13 me too 11:40:25 1 vote favourite place 11:40:32 l1 favorite place 11:40:35 rangi: Call the question on ranking votes as we did for the foundation 11:40:39 1 favaorite place 11:40:44 im not calling nothing 11:40:53 joann++ 11:41:00 OK 11:41:07 rank++ 11:41:23 as we did for the foundation 11:41:28 a vote about the vote? seriously? ;) 11:41:29 so choices are: A: rank or B: 1 favorite place 11:41:33 I propose that we rank votes as we had done for the foundation. 11:41:35 kf, :) 11:41:36 BobB says voting implies intention to attend! 11:41:38 B++ 11:41:42 A++ 11:41:51 B++ 11:41:56 irmaB: not sure everyone sees it like that. Sock-puppets are popular on teh interweb. 11:41:59 B+ 11:42:01 A++ 11:42:06 A+ 11:42:09 B+ 11:42:10 A++ 11:42:14 A++ 11:42:20 A++ 11:42:21 0 11:42:30 0 11:42:38 B+ 11:42:44 A+ 11:42:46 (oh come on slef - you always have an opinion :D 11:42:55 :) 11:43:00 ha 11:43:03 "favorite place" ? that's how we are going to choose the location... 11:43:04 joann: yes, but introducing a third option doesn't help rangi get to sleep. 11:43:26 slef wants score voting which I do too but it is too complicated to decide now. 11:43:34 so B=5 A=7 11:43:42 can we move on to the meeting time for march, then the discusssion can continue after 11:43:51 i'm putting two polls up and you can all tell me which you like and which is the official 11:43:56 :) 11:44:05 rank it is.. 11:44:08 heres what i propose 11:44:09 nengard: that will delay 11:44:13 rank it is 11:44:16 k rant it is 11:44:16 im gonna do the call for meeting timgs 11:44:21 rank it is 11:44:23 then im gonna end this meeting 11:44:26 rant? That's my sort of vote! 11:44:32 LOL - rank :) 11:44:33 and someone can do #startmeeting 11:44:35 slef, like++ 11:44:43 and continue on the voting 11:44:56 i think a vote has been made 11:44:57 we're done 11:44:59 yep 11:44:59 next meeting? 11:45:05 thank god 11:45:23 we make our lives harder than they need to be a lot of the time 11:45:25 how about fixing a date for end of poll? 11:45:26 Is there a start and end date for the vote? 11:45:35 #topic next meeting time 11:45:36 kmkale++ 11:45:44 plz lets decide the dates now 11:45:45 thd: I propose we delegate that to nengard :) 11:45:53 nicole will make a suggestion for the dates? 11:46:07 2 weeks 11:46:09 hi sekjal 11:46:13 next meeting time! 11:46:16 nicole++ 11:46:21 2 weeks is good 11:46:21 nengard, ++ 11:46:22 i propose 2nd march 11:46:26 * sekjal_ hates VPN 11:46:29 I am happy to delegate to nengard and let rangi and joann sleep. 11:46:38 first week of march would be great for me 11:46:41 2nd march++ 11:46:43 but not to decide 11:46:52 2nd march++ 11:46:59 what time? 11:46:59 time is a scary thing 11:47:01 2nd march as the date of next irc meeting? 11:47:04 yes 11:47:06 rangi is asking for a vote on the next meeting i think 11:47:10 2nd march++ (my birthday :) ) 11:47:11 :) 11:47:12 =! 11:47:22 voting on Conference to close via email by mid Feb? 11:47:28 actual votes 11:47:34 kf, cheerio 11:47:38 +1 11:47:49 indradg: kmkale: is now or +12h better for your timezone? 11:47:51 +1 2nd March 11:47:56 goodnight all 11:47:59 Brooke_: 2 weeks fro the day nengard puts up a form and posts to the lists 11:48:05 Hi all. Yes, for me it can be also be on 2nd March (I'm sorry that I couldn't atttend the meeting today. I can't see logbot here... Has any bot / one logged this meeting?) 11:48:09 slef, anything works 11:48:18 logbot is here 11:48:19 Ah... Sorry. There's logbot 11:48:22 rangi: Right 11:48:27 ricardo: there is log, the bot will tell the link soon 11:48:29 slef: ? 11:49:03 kmkale: which time is better for your area? 10:00+0000 or 22:00+0000? 11:49:13 now 11:49:23 10:00+0000 11:49:28 I'm thinking there may be questions need asking after the kohacon vote is settled. 11:49:34 22:00+0000 is 3.30 am 11:50:03 So Next IRC Meeting = 2nd march 10:00+0000 ? 11:50:06 Have a good day/night all! Bye 11:50:18 davi++ 11:50:20 2nd march 10:00+0000 ++ 11:50:26 davi++ 11:50:39 that makes it stupid oclock 11:50:44 for usa 11:50:47 2 months in a row 11:50:56 * Brooke_ can live with stupid oclock twice in a row 11:51:09 can't speak for the rest of us though 11:51:13 hm, we have the 3.6 roles next meeting 11:51:19 +1 anytime 11:51:27 rangi: Speaking for myself, I don't mind having the meeting at another time :) 11:51:53 neither me 11:52:00 * jcamins can't really speak at all this early in the morning. But provided April is a different time, I can deal with next month being at 5am again. 11:52:03 LOL @ "stupid oclock" 11:52:03 Just trying to set a date 11:52:07 other option is 22:00+0000 (as usual?) with a kohacon meeting at 10:00+0000 some day? 11:52:12 rangi, we should keep rotating the meeting time the way we are doing 11:52:13 18:00 utc? 11:52:26 thats 7am nz time 11:52:42 indradg: +1 11:52:44 oh it's 18:00 11:52:44 good for europe then too - 7pm 11:52:46 1800UTC is good too 11:52:47 7pm for uk 11:52:56 kf: no, 6pm 11:53:05 that ok? 11:53:08 kf: sorry, 8pm CEST/MESZ 11:53:08 whatever 11:53:11 time_zones-- 11:53:13 1800UTC is 23.30 India 11:53:19 rangi: For Portuguese people, like myself (and other European like kf has just said) 7 PM UTC is a good time 11:53:22 whats 1800 utc in usa? 11:53:22 civil time in the evening 11:53:30 +1 1800UTC 11:53:40 rangi: up to 1300 11:53:40 +1 1800UTC 11:53:49 1300, maybe? 11:53:53 s/up to/around/ 11:53:57 rangi: 1800 UTC is good for the US, all around 11:53:57 thats 2am nz 11:54:15 i wont be ther efor that :) 11:54:15 Hard to get convenient time for everyone. Why not just rotate? 11:54:24 US and AU hog multiple timezones 11:54:26 thats what we have been doing 11:54:35 10 utc this time 11:54:42 Can we agree something? 11:54:47 davi++ 11:54:50 davi++ 11:54:53 18++ 11:54:54 then 22 utc next 11:54:54 i vote 18 utc 11:54:56 +1 1800UTC 11:54:56 18++ 11:54:59 18++ 11:55:03 18 H UTC ++ 11:55:11 18++ 11:55:31 next time, let's boot rangi out of the chair when he gets tired ;-) 11:55:39 slef: LOL! 11:55:50 i was tryuing to do that 11:55:59 make an action and end meeting :) 11:56:02 18.00 UTC. 19:00 Lagos ++ 11:56:04 but you guys wouldnt be quiet long enough for me to do endmeeting 11:56:12 18:00 ++ 11:56:17 which is the only way someone else can become chair 11:56:20 * jwagner deploys Cone of Silence 11:56:28 :) 11:56:44 * mle gives jwagner 10xp 11:57:07 #agreed next meeting march 2 18:00UTC 11:57:08 oops 11:57:18 #endmeeting