17:59:33 #startmeeting Koha IRC Meeting 17:59:33 Meeting started Wed Mar 13 17:59:33 2013 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:33 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 17:59:33 The meeting name has been set to 'koha_irc_meeting' 17:59:43 #topic Introductions 17:59:44 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 17:59:50 #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba 17:59:54 #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 17:59:57 #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, RM for 3.12 17:59:57 #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software 17:59:57 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 17:59:58 #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin 17:59:58 ok :) Welcome all - please introduce yourself with #info 18:00:03 #info D Ruth Bavousett, TM 3.12, speaking for m'self. 18:00:04 #info Elliott Davis, Houston Tx, QAA 3.12 18:00:05 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany 18:00:07 #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS 18:00:09 #Margo Duncan University of Texas at Tyler 18:00:10 #info Jesse Maseto, ByWater Solutions 18:00:11 #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 18:00:18 #info Nancy Keener, Washoe County, Reno Nevada 18:00:26 #info Chris Hall, Catalyst IT, New Zealand 18:00:35 #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler 18:00:36 #info Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe Ltd 18:00:37 #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Córdoba, Argentina 18:00:38 #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions 18:00:53 ok :) 18:01:00 going to change the topic :) 18:01:05 #topic Announcements 18:01:11 #info MJ Ray, software.coop, England 18:01:13 do we have announcements or amendments to the agenda? 18:01:25 only one from me 18:01:28 I forgot to attache it 18:01:40 yes? 18:01:53 I am still planning on donating the domain names to HLT as of 4/3/2013 18:02:02 that is as soon as I can release them 18:02:21 2013-04-03 18:02:21 2006 18:02:24 that was days ago 18:02:25 :P 18:02:28 in europe 18:02:38 heh 18:02:46 I can put it in DT format if you wish 18:02:49 ok :) any questions about this or further announcements? 18:02:52 drojf: #include 18:02:53 libsysguy: Which names? 18:02:54 2013-04-03 00:00:00 18:03:09 slef: yay :D 18:03:16 I bought a gamut of koha based names a month or so ago 18:03:23 OK 18:03:29 and have an arrangement to transfer them to HLT 18:03:44 domain_names_on_sale++ 18:04:07 anywho, that's all I have 18:04:42 ok 18:04:44 moving on 18:04:55 #topic Update on 3.8 18:04:59 #info melia meggs, bywater solutions (late, sorry) 18:05:00 #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions 18:05:14 I think rmaint is not here? 18:05:21 #info Ed Veal, ByWater Solutions 18:05:23 Seemingly not. 18:05:24 heh 18:05:25 #info JD/Joanne Dillon, Te Takere 18:05:34 I guess it's best we move on to 3.12? 18:05:34 * slef checks bugs 18:05:36 #info Olugbenga Adara, Projektlink Konsult 18:05:46 Fine by me. 18:05:55 #topic Update on 3.12 18:06:02 Koha 3.12 is still on schedule. 18:06:05 jcamins: ? :) 18:06:23 I've been thinking about writing a belated RM newsletter. 18:06:24 jcamins 18:06:28 jcamins++ 18:06:41 When that will happen exactly I couldn't say, but I do plan on writing one. 18:07:05 jcamins++ 18:07:19 maybe after hackfest would be a good time? 18:07:32 jcamins++ 18:07:34 I also plan to release an alpha tarball/package at the start of the feature flush, and a beta a few days after the feature freeze. 18:07:39 aaand we have a pope 18:07:44 we do? 18:07:45 sorry ^^ 18:07:51 jcamins: should I be looking at Version 3.12 or Version master in bugs? 18:07:52 Better not be me! 18:07:57 drojf: Was that on the agenda? And no vote? 18:07:58 slef: version master. 18:08:14 oleonard: intransparency galore 18:08:15 jcamins: so 2 blockers 18:08:26 bug 9324 18:08:26 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9324 blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Reserves cannot be deleted with DEBUG on under Plack 18:08:28 On the subject of the schedule, I would like to remind people of a few key dates. 18:08:30 bug 9591 18:08:30 bug 9591 is a weird one 18:08:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9591 blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Set Library changes after viewing Holds Queue >> reserves item 18:08:47 I think we might go through a bunch of bugs next week - probably some need updating 18:09:19 Feature slush is March 15. 18:09:37 drojf: oh, white smoke 18:09:42 Any patch for a feature or enhancement that has not already been submitted by Friday *IS NOT GOING INTO KOHA 3.12*. 18:09:43 (23 critical, 84 major, 280 normal, 82 minor, 17 trivial, 496 enhancements, 11 new features) 18:10:00 Feature freeze starts March 22. 18:10:02 #info 2 blockers, 23 critical, 84 major, 280 normal, 82 minor, 17 trivial, 496 enhancements, 11 new features 18:10:15 #info Feature slush is March 15, freeze starts March 22 18:10:18 Any feature or enhancement that has not been pushed by March 22 *IS NOT GOING INTO KOHA 3.12*. 18:10:20 thx slef 18:10:22 jcamins: that includes followups? 18:10:25 i got distracted by the pope :) 18:10:36 #info Any feature or enhancement that has not been pushed by March 22 *IS NOT GOING INTO KOHA 3.12* 18:10:49 drojf: follow-ups fixing bugs in features already pushed will be accepted post-freeze. 18:10:56 cait: it's usually the priests to blame and the pope just hushes it up. 18:11:07 And QA follow-ups/revisions are allowed during the slush. 18:11:28 there are 84 enhancements and 1 new feature Needs Signoff 18:11:29 ok that is what i meant 18:11:35 i think we have to decide in some cases if it's a rewrite or QA follow up 18:11:48 slef: most new features probably not marked correctly 18:11:50 cait: yes. And I will tend to err on the side of "it's a rewrite." 18:12:00 So, basically: 18:12:01 jcamins: your call :) 18:12:07 jcamins: what would you like us to prefer? Bugfixes or enhancements? 18:12:16 bugfixes 18:12:16 bugfixes are still fair game 18:12:25 #info If you are in doubt about whether or not an enhancement/feature is eligible for 3.12, it isn't. 18:12:26 but you didn't ask me :) 18:12:28 Bugfixes. 18:12:29 bugfixes are still fair game 18:12:32 Absolutely bugfixes. 18:12:48 I'd love to see more enhancements and features go in, of course, but our goal is a rock-solid release. 18:13:00 rock-solid++ 18:13:11 3.14 is coming out in November, so anything that gets bumped shouldn't be waiting too long. 18:13:12 I saw some weridness in presenting koha today... will try to track these things down and check 18:13:16 And that's all I have to say. 18:13:21 ok 18:13:22 any javascript gurus around? 18:13:24 Unless there are more questions. 18:13:26 so I would like to move on :) 18:13:45 slef: is your question related to 3.12? 18:13:55 cait: it's a major bug in master, so sort of. 18:14:10 maybe that is better for after the meeting? 18:14:13 File a bug, discuss after the meeting 18:14:16 yep 18:14:18 cait: as you wish. 18:14:28 #topic KohaCon2013 18:14:33 #info We have 18 people registered so far, 6 programs proposed, we need more. 18:14:34 nancyk? :) 18:14:39 oleonard: is a bug. Was hoping to smoke out someone to review the fix ;-) 18:15:05 #info I will send out an email calling for papers, and asking for subjects we would like to see covered. This email will also include links to register, volunteer to do a program, and other stuff. 18:15:17 nancyk++ :) 18:15:24 #link http://koha-community.org/kohacon/kohacon13/ 18:15:32 perhaps include a deadline for submissions for talks? 18:15:37 * slef goes to close the kohacon12 registration forms 18:15:46 I would like to present at KohaCon2013 if anyone has good ideas for what kind of front-end/UI stuff might be of interest 18:16:06 slef: noooo 18:16:15 drojf: 12, not 13 18:16:20 i know 18:16:21 #info We have a meeting next week on Tues 19th 19 UTC, I’ll send out a reminder. 18:16:21 :P 18:16:32 oleonard: ui magic show :) 18:16:35 drojf: o_O 18:17:02 #info I would like to set up some panel discussions … what would be good? 18:17:03 oleonard: maybe some conceptual ideas to get some feedback from libraries? 18:17:30 nancyk: will it be possible to do a streaming presentation? i might consider doing that, but i will 99,9% sure not be able to come to reno 18:17:55 nancyk: panels should be fine 18:17:56 we can certainly try. 18:18:19 That's all I have for now 18:18:36 drojf: a prerecorded talk seemed to work for last time. Perhaps slef can advise nancyk on how he set that up. 18:18:41 do we have some deadline regarding kohacon13 participation? 18:18:42 nancyk++ 18:18:58 jcamins: yeah that is probably more safe 18:19:13 No deadlines yet 18:19:14 and try a live hello/q&a afterwards 18:19:18 oh wow you don't want to know 18:19:46 playback was easy, but I was using a GSM phone with a headphone jack into the PA 18:19:49 thanks nancyk 18:20:08 for the live Q+A 18:20:23 i was more thinking of jitsy 18:20:25 I hope drojf doesn't mind, but I'd prefer live speakers if you can. 18:20:25 nancyk: ok to change topic? 18:20:27 jitsi even 18:20:30 and thank you for the update! 18:20:41 yes 18:20:58 #topic KohaCon14 18:21:08 not sure who added it to the agenda 18:21:09 #info Dobrica Pavlinušić, FFZG Zagreb, Croatia (sorry, late) 18:21:10 slef: no i perfectly understand that 18:21:14 hi dpavlin_ :) 18:21:21 hi dpavlin_ 18:21:28 please propose for kohacon 14 :P 18:21:33 hi all, not to hijack KohaCon14 topic :-) 18:21:39 aaaw 18:22:07 * jcamins cheers! Zagreb for KohaCon14! 18:22:21 I think it's a little early, unless there are folks eager to start proposing sites 18:22:45 ;-) 18:22:50 nancyk: it looks like someone has edited the kohacon12 registration form, but left them coming to the co-op. Should I change the recipient address and forward the forms over? Can you /msg slef the email address, please? 18:23:06 I think what we've heard from previous organizers is that having extra time to think is a good idea, so that there could be some sort of planning discussion at the previous year's KohaCon. 18:23:18 That leaves us several months, since KohaCon13 is in October. 18:23:29 And I don't know who put it on the agenda either. 18:23:59 someone check RecentChanges. I'm up to my eyeballs in website 18:24:01 slef: lotsof registrations? :) 18:24:45 ok 18:24:48 cait: I think I saw a few come in. I was going to check when things quietened down (hah!) 18:24:58 so if we don't have something to vote or discuss right now - I am going to move on :) 18:25:12 dooo eeet 18:25:14 but zagreb would certainly be nice :) 18:25:25 #topic Roles for 3.14 18:25:31 i think now starts the main event for tonight? 18:25:33 I will fix the registration page. 18:25:50 nancyk: I have the admin open, so can do it if you prefer. 18:25:51 ok, not to sound silly, but are we going to vote tonight? 18:26:36 Apparently we are voting at the April meeting. 18:26:49 I don't think it's bad to talk about it now - the more choice we have or the more people thinking about hosting next one the better :) 18:26:57 ah, because I think it was advertised somewhere that we will vote today 18:27:10 probably just a - hey we need some volunteers in the next 8 months :P 18:27:11 From February 6: vote for release team is in two meetings time (wizzyrea, 02:42:38) 18:27:20 yep 18:27:26 oh the form has been edited out of the kohacon12 registration page 18:27:31 yep April 18:27:36 we are not voting today? 18:27:42 no voting today 18:27:45 I guess there was some confusion 18:27:46 We are not. 18:27:53 maybe we shoudl make it an early april meeting then 18:27:57 and i stayed up all night? man 18:28:00 kidding 18:28:04 drojf: it's not even 8 18:28:11 send them to me nkeener@washoecounty.us 18:28:20 I had the virtual white smoke ready 18:28:25 nancyk: will do. 18:28:32 ColinC++ 18:28:49 drojf is in Kazakhstan starting his bratwurst cart business cait 18:28:57 It's later there. 18:29:20 ColinC: heh 18:29:23 ok, so no voting 18:29:30 any questions about the roles? 18:29:34 Yes 18:30:08 I would like gmcharlt to clarify any thoughts he has about post-MARC Koha 18:30:36 thd: I think this kind of question takes a longer time to be answered 18:30:45 I mean of course very briefly. 18:30:54 gmcharlt? 18:30:55 i think gmcharlt is an expert in all things library technology. 18:31:12 thd: it's pretty simple, at least in theory: I would like Koha to be able to treat metadata formats other than MARC21 as first-class options for data entry, search, and indexing 18:31:45 in particular (to start), qualified Dublin Core and (if the tuits appear) EAD 18:32:18 no one is saying get rid of MARC handling, right, gmcharlt? There seems to be confusion over that. 18:32:23 more generally, to take advantage of the capacities of the current search engine options to index arbitrary XML 18:32:39 druthb: correct, and to be clear: the proposal is not to remove MARC support from Koha 18:32:48 that's EASILY a decade away 18:32:49 death to MARC! 18:32:50 heh 18:32:52 gmcharlt++ 18:33:02 gmchart: The arbitrary format issue is the answer to my question. 18:33:05 gmcharlt++ sounds interesting for sure! 18:33:06 gmcharlt++++ 18:33:09 ok 18:33:14 any more questions? 18:33:23 magnuse: you around? 18:33:39 yes: can we vote for gmcharlt so he can't run away? 18:33:56 so we would have biblio in any format, what about items? 18:33:57 tcohen: I have been pondering that 18:34:01 magnuse said he wouldn't be here 18:34:16 oleonard: I had a pm from him earlier :) 18:34:19 so just checking 18:34:40 ok next toic 18:34:43 #topic Crowdfunding for big boring improvements (see agenda) 18:34:54 * druthb is headed out to other engagements. be well, all. 18:35:15 maybe we can gather some gneeral thoughts on that? 18:35:52 I should find the video of my awful kohacon12 talk ;) 18:36:01 one general thought -- there would be some legalities to consider 18:36:26 The idea seems good in theory. The problem is just the lag time on any sort of large refactoring. Patch A depends on patch B depends on patch C, and each one takes a long time to get in, so we may end up making very little progress. 18:36:38 for example, should we form an entity that is empowered to collect and distribute funds (or join an exisiting umbrella organization for F/OSS projects)? 18:36:51 I belive the main problem is the choice of some framework 18:37:13 or consider an approach where somebody comes up with a plan to do such a project, then seeks funding? 18:37:16 gmcharlt: or join one 18:37:29 Piwik (Google Analytics) has successfully used crowdfunding for new features. See: http://crowdfunding.piwik.org/ 18:37:31 gmcharlt: or ask HLT if it would process them. 18:38:04 s/be free software Google Analytics alternative 18:38:05 Is there any problem with HLT serving as the collecting and dispersement entity? 18:38:10 slef: indeed, ready, willing, *and* equipped to do so 18:38:10 crowdfunding is not the problem, but what to do 18:38:34 Is Bob our HLT contact? 18:38:36 thd: that is an open question -- it would mean work for HLT; we certainly can't just assume 18:38:41 thd: for one, they would have to agree to do that? 18:38:51 and i guess being as inteantional as we are there might be difficultis of all sorts to move money around and billing 18:39:08 cait: and potential conflicts of interest 18:39:17 JDatTeTakere: any thoughts before HLT is volunteered? 18:39:23 * cait wishes things weren't so complicated all the time 18:39:42 cait: I suspect that is going to suck no matter what we do and be rather unpredictable, so I wouldn't include it as a reason, based on past experience. 18:39:43 Asside from the question of the willingness of HLT, is there a problem for some organisations giving to HLT? 18:40:16 I think just donating without a bill for something could be a problem for some public institutions 18:40:21 cait: unless someone can get a banker to give a promise ;-) 18:40:43 thd: giving: yes; paying for a promise of koha work: probably not. 18:40:45 if you could structure it to show that an insitution is paying for something 18:40:46 but thta's to be sorted out when we have some proposal 18:41:00 I was just trying to work out what HLT stood for :-) 18:41:12 wahanui: HLT? 18:41:13 HLT are hosting it? 18:41:18 wahanui: forget HLT 18:41:18 slef: I forgot hlt 18:41:23 Horowhenua Library Trust 18:41:34 HLT is Horowhenua Library Trust 18:41:35 hlt? 18:41:35 hlt is Horowhenua Library Trust 18:41:43 wahanui: HLT is Horowhenua Library Trust http://www.library.org.nz 18:41:44 ...but hlt is Horowhenua Library Trust... 18:41:47 wahanui: forget HLT 18:41:48 slef: I forgot hlt 18:41:49 wahanui: HLT is Horowhenua Library Trust http://www.library.org.nz 18:41:49 OK, slef. 18:42:22 We're currently working on some improvements for Kete but would certainly love to be involved in Koha ones. 18:42:23 ok 18:42:44 I think we won't come to a decision about that atonight 18:42:51 Agreed. 18:42:59 so I am moving on to Actions from last meeting 18:43:04 #topic Actions from last meeting 18:43:12 trying to hurry things along a bit ;) 18:43:17 how can we come to discuss choosing a framework or minimal set of tools for that? 18:43:23 can someone check the logs please? 18:43:27 We have no outstanding actions. 18:43:32 tcohen: send a message to the mailing list. 18:43:33 http://meetings.koha-community.org/2013/general_meeting__2012_02_06.2013-02-07-02.05.html 18:43:38 well, just the one 18:43:39 * gmcharlt interested parties should submit their proposals for release team duties to the wiki, and mail the link to the devel list (wizzyrea, 02:41:09) 18:43:50 tcohen: I think doing it on the fly without preparation now is too hard - but could be discussed on the mailing list /a wiki page 18:43:57 * gmcharlt reiterates call for more bug wranglers 18:44:02 gmcharlt: interested parties already did that, I think. 18:44:17 indeed 18:44:20 well if we got more interested parties... that would not hurt 18:44:28 gmcharlt: say it as #action for maximum volume? 18:44:28 True. 18:44:33 btw gmcharlt+++++ :) 18:44:59 #action please consider being a bug wrangler! 18:45:15 #action Folks interested in 3.14 roles, particularly QA and bug wranglers, should submit proposals and update http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.14 18:45:28 ok, can someone help me find the right time for next meeting please? drojf? 18:45:56 i forgot which way around we rotate 18:46:04 last was 2am 18:46:05 I suggest that we do shoot for earlier in April, and suggest April 3rd as the day 18:46:08 I think backwards 18:46:09 so next is 10 UTC = 11 BST = 12 CEST = arrrgh? 18:46:09 i think it is 12is 18:46:11 April 3, 1000UTC? 18:46:14 Yes. 18:46:15 gmcharlt: ok for me 18:46:16 yeah i think so slef 18:46:18 10UTC 18:46:30 good voting time 18:46:39 (for europe...) 18:46:40 wlel not for nz 18:46:43 bit late 18:47:04 we could do 2 times for vote meetings 18:47:23 I think we better send them coffee if the altenrative is 2 meetings :) 18:47:24 if there are people to chaitr, and people to sort out people taking part in both 18:47:34 It's 11pm NZ time - not too bad. 18:47:37 #agreed next meeting: April 3rd, 10UTC 18:47:41 drojf: I don't think that's necessary. People can note their votes on the wiki, if anyone wants to vote against the anticipated majority. 18:47:42 hope I got that right? 18:47:45 You did. 18:47:53 well consider this meeting ended :) 18:47:54 drojf: Would that mean voting twice or once across two meetings? 18:47:55 * jcamins seconds the movement to end the meeting. :) 18:47:59 #endmeeting