17:56:09 <Brooke_> #startmeeting 17:56:09 <huginn> Meeting started Wed Mar 2 17:56:09 2011 UTC. The chair is Brooke_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:56:09 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:56:20 <Brooke_> #topic Introductions 17:56:41 <paul_p> paul_p, BibLibre, France 17:56:45 <Brooke_> Haere Mai, Egondea, Welcome to #koha, please introduce yourselves as we wait for others to arrive :) 17:56:52 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, Equinox 17:56:54 * cait = Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 17:57:00 <thd> Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 17:57:07 * jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, ByWater Solutions 17:57:10 <kmkale> chatzilla tells me we are 4 mins early ;) 17:57:11 <jwagner> Jane Wagner, PTFS 17:57:16 * wizzyrea liz rea, NEKLS 17:57:17 * slef = MJ Ray, CEO software.coop 17:57:19 * davi davi = worker for software.coop 17:57:19 <JesseM> Jesse Maseto, ByWater Solutions 17:57:21 * magnuse Magnus Enger. Libriotech, Norway 17:57:30 <slef> kmkale: I think we are early too 17:57:44 <kmkale> Koustubha Kale Anant Corporation, VPM, Thane, granthalaya.org 17:57:46 <bg> Brendan Gallagher ByWater Solutions 17:57:47 * sekjal is Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions 17:58:26 <SandeepBhavsar> Sandeep Bhavsar Librarian Vidya Prasarak mandal, Thane's Dr. V N Bedekar Institute of Management Studies 17:59:15 <NateC> Nate Curulla: ByWater Solutions 17:59:33 <space_librarian_home> Shelley Gurney, Catalyst IT 17:59:58 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT, biblibre 18:00:36 <Brooke_> welcome everyone again and now it is properly time ;) 18:00:49 <Brooke_> #topic Roadmap to 3.2 18:01:08 <Brooke_> so, do we have an update on the 3.2 Roadmap? 18:01:21 <slef> Do we have a chris_n? 18:01:47 <gmcharlt> chris_n++ # 3.2.4 and 3.2.5 18:02:00 <wizzyrea> chris_n++ 18:02:05 <hdl> chris_n++ 18:02:08 <wizzyrea> maybe enough beeps will raise him 18:02:16 <Brooke_> chris_n++ for timely delivery :D 18:02:28 <cait> chris_n++ 18:02:52 <paul_p> can we speak of a security list as 3.2.5 has been released because of a security (hacker) issue ? 18:03:00 <slef> chris_n++ for timely releases, chris_n-- for not being here or putting his report on the wiki page? 18:03:04 <Brooke_> paul go for it 18:03:05 <gmcharlt> paul_p: I've added an item to the agenda 18:03:13 <gmcharlt> after the KohaCon 11 discussion 18:03:15 <paul_p> gmcharlt, sorry, missed it 18:03:23 <Brooke_> it's not on mine either 18:03:30 <gmcharlt> paul_p: no problem, I *just* added it now 18:03:36 <paul_p> ah, ok ;-) 18:03:39 <gmcharlt> http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_Meeting,_2_March_2011#Agenda 18:03:47 <Brooke_> makes more sense here, methinks. 18:03:57 <slef> #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_Meeting,_2_March_2011 18:03:58 <gmcharlt> Brooke_: it's not specific to 3.2 18:04:05 <Brooke_> okily dokily. 18:04:33 <gmcharlt> shall we move on to 3.0? 18:04:36 <Brooke_> yep 18:04:43 <Brooke_> #topic 3.0 Roadmap 18:05:04 <mtj_> morning 18:05:05 <gmcharlt> I actually have an update for 3.0 - with hdl's consent, I intend to cut a security release of 3.0 18:05:14 <gmcharlt> which, IIRC, would make it 3.0.7 18:05:21 <hdl> yes. 18:06:24 <Brooke_> anything else? 18:06:24 <wahanui1> rumour has it anything else is reinventing the wheel 18:06:31 <gmcharlt> and ... I think that's about it for an update on 3.0 18:06:42 <Brooke_> brevity is a virtue sir 18:06:51 <Brooke_> #topic Roadmap to 3.4 18:06:58 <hdl> yes. it should be noted in the relase notes that it should be the last. 18:07:09 <Brooke_> Chris is skived off to a cool conference 18:07:16 <Brooke_> anyone want to sub? 18:07:20 <paul_p> I have something to say about 3.4 & bugzilla. 18:07:32 <Brooke_> shoot 18:07:58 <Brooke_> allez :D 18:08:05 <slef> #info the apologies section of the wiki page says "chris cormack will try to be there but is at a conference" 18:08:20 <paul_p> I did a lot of wrangling recently, and have some important numbers :85 bugs are "patch pushed" waiting for "bug closed" and 152 bugs "needs signoff" 18:08:48 <paul_p> What can we do to lower those numbers ? 18:09:04 <hdl> hehe: test and sign off ;) 18:09:10 <paul_p> the more there are, the hard it is to deal with them (specially the "need sign-off") 18:09:28 <paul_p> hdl, yes, so I change my question = how can we motivate ppl to sign-off & close ? 18:09:46 <paul_p> should we organise a "wrangling day" ? should we publish a weekly summary ? 18:09:51 <cait> I think hdl is right, we need more people testing and signing-off 18:09:53 <paul_p> a news in the newsletter ? 18:09:55 <magnuse> it's probably a question of time for most of us... 18:09:55 <sekjal> scoreboard 18:10:04 <wizzyrea> scoreboard++ 18:10:04 <Brooke_> #idea Wrangling Day 18:10:23 <Brooke_> a newsletter item would make nengard happy 18:10:23 <hdl> what could help would be to have some dedicated server with as many vhosts as branches 18:10:26 <Brooke_> so I'm all for it 18:10:34 <gmcharlt> hdl: is BibLibre offering to set one up? 18:10:47 <hdl> we could do that.... on the new jenkins server. 18:10:56 <hdl> Problem would be the databases... 18:11:10 <paul_p> magnuse, yes, but once we've said it's a question of time, we have 2 options: or we *decide* to do something, each of us taking, for example 20 bugs. or we do nothing, and those numbers will continue to grow and our workflow is just a theory,... 18:11:26 <slef> magnuse++ 18:11:31 <hdl> any help would be appreciated in setting that up and automating that.. 18:11:32 <Brooke_> #help bug wranglers to address backlog 18:11:35 <paul_p> I don't have time, but I take time ! 18:11:45 <magnuse> paul_p++ 18:11:58 <paul_p> last night I worked up to 1AM, and signed/closed something like 20 18:12:17 <paul_p> (i'm not asking everybody to work up to 1AM ;-) ) 18:12:27 <paul_p> s/asking/suggesting/ 18:12:37 <magnuse> (it might help, though ;-) ) 18:12:40 <Brooke_> I appreciate your dedication, as always Paul 18:12:57 <paul_p> thx Brooke_, but me alone won't be enough. 18:13:01 <thd> hdl: Do you not have appropriate test databases? 18:13:15 <hdl> thd: we have for unimarc 18:13:24 <Brooke_> I realise that, and I like the 20 per person. Do we have enough volunteers that could spare the time and technical expertise to make this happen? 18:13:26 <hdl> and databases are not automated. 18:13:41 <slef> Each time I put aside time, by the point I've got myself to the point of having a current master, reminded myself how to do the signing-off and found something I could test (right MARC format, reproducible problem, and so on), I'm out of time. Why does it take so long? 18:13:42 <paul_p> a good, but not enough news: Julian Maurice started yesterday a 6month time with us. He's a student, and will be dedicated to signin/closing/submitting BibLibre patches. 18:13:42 <gmcharlt> with respect, it is not just a numbers game 18:13:44 <hdl> And some bugs are really tightened to some systempreferences 18:13:55 <gmcharlt> the quality of the signoffs and testing also matters 18:14:13 <slef> gmcharlt++ security_bugs-- 18:14:27 <cait> gmcharlt++ 18:14:41 <magnuse> gmcharlt++ 18:14:41 <Brooke_> I'd imagine that they won't necessarily break down cleanly as some would work packaged together, too 18:14:55 <Brooke_> but someplace there needs be a line drawn if we can manage 18:14:56 <sekjal> would be really helpful if bug reports came with testing plans. "Here is how to confirm a fix works" 18:14:59 <gmcharlt> in terms of prioritizing, I suggest that the patches awaiting signoff should come first 18:14:59 <Brooke_> many hands make light work. 18:15:05 <davi> I could contribute 1 hour of my time to sign some bugs more 18:15:09 <thd> I think that we need to develop some automated systems for testing so that testing becomes easier. 18:15:09 <paul_p> gmcharlt, double right = it also means that it takes time to signoff/close (see some bugs that i've commented "can't sign-off") 18:15:12 <Brooke_> sekjal good idea 18:15:20 <Brooke_> thank you davi 18:15:20 <gmcharlt> once a patch has been pushed, it has presumably been tested at least once (by the person who signed off) 18:15:29 <slef> hdl++ do we need syspref summarising in "About Koha"? 18:15:33 <Brooke_> #idea automated testing 18:15:44 <gmcharlt> so additional testing to close the bug, while still important, is hopefully less of an issue 18:15:47 <Brooke_> #idea testing plans in conjunction with patches 18:15:52 <davi> no Brooke_ 18:15:54 <davi> np 18:16:15 <hdl> slef: i think we could adding some test plans to reproduce the bug would be helpfull... 18:16:20 <paul_p> another idea = having more than one setup, with various configs (like marc21/unimarc , IndependantBranches ON/OFF,...) 18:16:27 <hdl> But it would add some more overhead to declare bugs. 18:16:38 <thd> I did not mean that all tests should be automated but we need to have good automation for setting up tests run by humans checking behaviour. 18:17:06 <slef> hdl: I think reporting already asks for steps to reproduce the bug 18:17:20 <wizzyrea> it does 18:17:26 <thd> paul_p++ Yes, that is what I meant. 18:17:27 <cait> I am not sure we have a technical problem 18:17:38 <cait> the easy bugs are done quickly - like interface changes 18:17:40 <hdl> slef: sometimes the bug comes because of one system preference. 18:17:48 <wizzyrea> cait: agreed 18:17:49 <hdl> And user are not aware of that. 18:18:07 <cait> but there are some things I have no idea about - we need people with enough knowledge looking at them 18:18:13 <mtj_> some bugs really need attached bib and syspref .sql files 18:18:14 <paul_p> can we consider that someone who declares a bug should be the one who closes it when "patch pushed" ? I could send some reminders to ppl in this situation ? 18:18:20 <slef> hdl: that's what I mean. If user could get a syspref summary code from "About Koha" to paste in the report which was useful to us that may help. 18:18:24 <hdl> mtj++ 18:18:32 <mtj_> complex circ bugs, etc 18:18:43 <wizzyrea> slef++ a report about the reporter's config 18:18:47 <wizzyrea> would help immensely 18:18:51 * Brooke_ nods. 18:18:58 * paul_p agrees too 18:19:01 <gmcharlt> paul_p: yes, general the person who first reported a bug ought to test and close it, so reminders would be appropriate 18:19:12 <slef> I think mtj_ might be right - it would be a settings file to attach to the bug. 18:19:13 <hdl> #idea add a syspref summary code from About Koha" to paste in the report which was useful to us that may help. 18:19:14 <Brooke_> #idea enhancing About Koha to report more configuration details 18:19:18 <gmcharlt> (at least for project regulars, no need to bug somebody who just dropped by to report a bug) 18:19:21 <mtj_> hdl++, yes, a very nice idea to work towards 18:19:23 <paul_p> ok, will send reminder soon unless someone objects. 18:19:42 <Brooke_> I am hearing no objections 18:19:44 <Brooke_> am I right? 18:20:07 <paul_p> #idea paul_p will send mail reminders to ppl that have a bug where they are "reporter" that is "patch pushed, pls close" 18:20:08 <Brooke_> #action Paul to send a reminder about bug workflow details 18:20:10 <mtj_> an 'about this koha' page, to attach to bug reports 18:20:27 <thd> mtj_: Some bugs definitely require much more testing work but anything we can do to make any testing easier on people with limited time should help. 18:21:20 <slef> mtj_: we already have that, don't we? 18:21:37 * paul_p will deal with biblibre ppl that are no more working at BibLibre :\ 18:21:44 <paul_p> (nahuel mostly) 18:22:06 <davi> Sometimes the one who report a bug do not have the expertise to test-close it 18:22:21 <gmcharlt> paul_p: is he still around (in the sense of having any interest or time to work on Koha)? 18:22:25 <magnuse> davi: true 18:22:49 <hdl> gmcharlt: he is around on koha-fr but no longer any time to work on koha 18:22:50 <paul_p> gmcharlt, nope. working for a university using Koha (AixMarseille), but not on Koha at all 18:23:01 <gmcharlt> davi: perhaps, but hopefully they should at least recognize when the initial problem they reported now appears to be working 18:23:14 <hdl> gmcharlt++ 18:23:15 <gmcharlt> paul_p: thanks 18:23:30 <davi> gmcharlt, working in the new release, that is to say, check close after release 18:23:43 <davi> note they can not even install a dev version maybe 18:23:56 <davi> ? 18:24:23 <gmcharlt> davi: well, then they'd have to wait until the new release to test, then 18:24:40 <gmcharlt> though that leads to a variant of one of the ideas discussed 18:24:43 <davi> It is OK to ask the reported to test, but IMHO do not set as a "have to" because some ones will not be able to 18:24:48 <gmcharlt> #idea public database that always tracks master 18:25:01 * paul_p is wondering if we should not remind ppl that there are bug to test/close in a weekly/bi-monthly email on koha-devel. 18:25:25 <paul_p> I feel, but i may be wrong, that many ppl could find a few minuts if they knew exactly what to do. 18:25:27 <gmcharlt> davi: hence the distinction I made between project regulars and people who submit the occassional bug report 18:25:32 <slef> paul_p: I think we are always aware of it :-/ 18:25:37 <davi> ack gmcharlt 18:26:07 <paul_p> slef, everybody is aware ? i'm not sure. I had Frydolin boss on phone this morning, not sure he was aware. 18:26:12 <Brooke_> it feels like this is exhausted 18:26:30 <gmcharlt> no! we must keep our energy up to close bugs! 18:26:40 <Brooke_> heh 18:26:41 <gmcharlt> Brooke_: oh, you meant the agenda item ;) 18:26:47 <paul_p> and i'm sure he could tell fridolyn to take a few hours! 18:26:58 <paul_p> gmcharlt, no! to what ? 18:27:11 <thd> paul_p: I think that many people would indeed take the issue seriously if all that people had to do was test and not set up and configure the system to run the test. 18:27:11 <gmcharlt> paul_p: as in "no, we must not be exhausted" ;) 18:27:36 <Brooke_> anything else relevant to 3.4? 18:28:07 <Brooke_> movin' on 18:28:09 <schuster> Schuster - Plano ISD 18:28:11 <thd> mtj_: What did you mean by "about this Koha?" 18:28:42 <Brooke_> #topic roles for 3.6 18:28:53 <Brooke_> soooo 18:28:58 <Brooke_> we've a slight problem here 18:29:02 <paul_p> gmcharlt, lol 18:29:06 <Brooke_> but it's not to big to surmount. 18:29:06 <slef> I don't remember who Frydolin is. 18:29:30 <Brooke_> Most of our slate is unopposed 18:29:38 <paul_p> slef, Progilone, french company that won at least 2 contracts in France 18:29:50 <paul_p> (Lyon2 university, Bulac university) 18:29:57 <Brooke_> so I think that we can probably manage a blanket affirmation on those. 18:30:00 * gmcharlt proposes that we proceed with votes on RM, TM, and DM for 3.6; with +1/0/-1 for the current (sole) candiates 18:30:10 <Brooke_> also, a bunch of the usual suspects are missing 18:30:38 <Brooke_> so the proposed Release Manager is Chris Cormack 18:30:39 <slef> gmcharlt: and RMaint? 18:30:42 <Brooke_> all in favour 18:30:44 <magnuse> #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.6 18:30:44 <space_librarian_home> i think Rangi was resigned to his fate before he left 18:30:48 <slef> +1 18:30:51 <gmcharlt> slef: yes, and RMaint 18:30:53 <paul_p> slef, http://www.progilone.com/Templates/Koha.htm 18:31:03 <thd> +1 18:31:05 <magnuse> +1 18:31:07 <paul_p> +1 18:31:07 <gmcharlt> +1 18:31:08 <sekjal> +1 18:31:10 <jcamins> +1 18:31:14 <cait> +1 18:31:15 <space_librarian_home> +1 18:31:18 <wizzyrea> +1 18:31:40 <brendan_> +1 18:31:51 <davi> 0 18:31:57 <JesseM> +1 18:32:12 <schuster> +1 18:32:22 <kmkale> +1 18:32:45 * gmcharlt further moves that we vote on sekjal's bid to be QAM 18:32:47 <Brooke_> #agreed Chris successfully suckered into another 6 months. 18:33:01 <Brooke_> I'm gettin' there gmcharlt. 18:33:04 <Brooke_> that's down the line. 18:33:19 <Brooke_> I go by the list or I git too squirrelly ;P 18:33:41 <Brooke_> Translation Manager is proposed to be Frédéric Demians 18:33:42 <gmcharlt> Brooke_: there is a motion on the table for voting on the slate of RM, TM, DM, and RMaint 18:34:16 <gmcharlt> it might save time to vote on all of the unopposed positions 18:34:23 * slef thought "tabled" meant something different to USians 18:34:34 <Brooke_> which is what I initially said, but I thought there was disagreement on that... 18:34:57 * paul_p was not sure to have understand, but anyway will say +1 once or 4 times. 18:34:58 <gmcharlt> slef: tabled != on the table, in US parliamentary speak 18:35:18 <Brooke_> so how about this 18:35:23 <Brooke_> we know chris is in 18:35:28 <Brooke_> let's bundle the other posts 18:35:33 <Brooke_> is everyone fine with that? 18:35:45 <space_librarian_home> yep 18:35:47 <paul_p> gmcharlt, in france, things that are on the table is usually food :D (kidding, we also use "tabled" in the "to be discussed" too) 18:35:49 <gmcharlt> yes 18:35:54 <Brooke_> so 18:35:59 <thd> Brooke_: I see no opposition to a blanket vote in the log 18:36:20 <slef> paul_p: ("tabled" is "postponed" to US I think) 18:36:34 <mtj__> i would like to propose a *new* position, some person/people to be elected as admins for the Koha lists on nabble.com 18:36:42 <Brooke_> Frédéric Demians for Translation Manager, Nicole Engard for Documentation Manager, Ian Walls for QA, Chris Nighswonger for Release Maintainer 18:36:44 <davi> paul_p, in Spain the discussion of a subject can be on the table too 18:36:54 <Brooke_> hang on to that idea mtj 18:37:02 <Brooke_> I'll come back to it and if I don't yell at meh 18:37:05 <mtj__> *nod* 18:37:18 <Brooke_> so all in favour of the afforementioned blanket slate 18:37:24 <gmcharlt> +1 18:37:27 <magnuse> +1 18:37:29 <space_librarian_home> +1 18:37:35 <thd> slef: 'tabled' meaning postponed is different from 'on the table' meaning the item for current discussion. 18:37:36 <davi> 0 18:37:37 <slef> 0 18:37:39 <thd> +1 18:37:41 <brendan_> +1 18:37:43 <cait> +1 18:37:43 <JesseM> +1 18:37:44 <paul_p> +1 18:37:46 <wizzyrea> +1 18:37:50 <cait> and we have things on the table in Germany too ;) 18:37:54 <sekjal> +1 18:37:56 <slef> thd: not in English English 18:38:13 <jcamins> +1 18:38:18 <schuster> +1 18:38:28 <hdl> +1 18:38:31 <slef> thd: we use "shelved" for postponed instead. 18:38:50 <paul_p> should we vote to decide if we can use the "tabled" word ? :D :D 18:39:08 <thd> slef: Do you use 'tabled' at all? 18:39:09 <slef> paul_p: yeah and we'll lose and still get confused! 18:39:16 * gmcharlt proposes that we use whatever the French term is ;) 18:39:28 <slef> thd: yes, to describe the state of the motion on the table. 18:40:03 <Brooke_> there's a current motion, and there are actions on the table, but not usually both at once 18:40:07 <Brooke_> anyhoo 18:40:11 <Brooke_> think it's safe to say 18:40:17 <Brooke_> #agreed the motion carries 18:40:37 <Brooke_> that leaves us with Bug Wrangler 18:40:42 <Brooke_> and a proposal for a new slot 18:40:47 <thd> slef: What is the standard manual for parliamentary procedure in the UK? 18:40:58 <paul_p> looking at bugwrangler position on the wiki page, I see "to do some PR about the work done", that's what I suggested a few mn ago with my weekly mail ;-) I candidate to write this PR. You'll enjoy my english ;-) 18:40:59 <gmcharlt> I propose that both applications for Bug Wrangler be accepted 18:41:05 <slef> thd: I think the Speaker makes it up as he goes along. 18:41:14 <thd> :) 18:41:17 <paul_p> the more bugwrangler we have the better it is. 18:41:28 <thd> pau_p++++ 18:41:29 <cait> gmcharlt++ 18:41:31 <Brooke_> I <3 that proposal gmcharlt 18:41:50 <paul_p> and I feel i've been a BW recently, event without the official position... 18:42:12 * Brooke_ notes that paul is getting dangerously close to a nomination with those words... 18:42:28 <slef> just to check, everyone has noticed my drastic WONTFIX plan? 18:42:31 <mtj__> im keen to be a bug-wrangler 18:42:32 * paul_p knew that and accept the position if ppl want ;-) 18:42:57 <Brooke_> so then, I'll entertain a motion to have Marcel de Rooy, MJ Ray, and Paul Poulain as Bug Wranglers. 18:43:07 <cait> I think the more bug wranglers the better 18:43:10 <thd> slef: Would explain you won't fix plan? 18:43:11 <gmcharlt> slef: noticed, though I'd prefer that those bugs be at least glanced at individually before being marked WONTFIX 18:43:14 * gmcharlt is willing to help with that 18:43:25 <cait> I will try to spend more time on it too - after march is over 18:43:32 <slef> gmcharlt: yes, I plan to check each one. 18:43:35 <paul_p> slef, or there is something i'm misunderstanding, or I agree with your proposition 18:43:38 <cait> too many projects at the moment :( 18:43:44 <slef> thd: so that we can concentrate on 3.6, I'd systematically check and RESOLVE WONTFIX the ~140 bugs reported not against maintained versions and I'd suggest reclassifying the 771 bugs reported against master as reported against the version which immediately follows the date they were reported 18:43:55 <mtj__> Brooke_: can i be a bug-wrangler too? 18:44:03 <Brooke_> hmmm 18:44:07 <Brooke_> this is pretty fluid 18:44:16 <Brooke_> what do we do with this as a group? 18:44:22 <sekjal> is there a formal relationship between the Bug Wranglers and the QAM? 18:44:25 <Brooke_> should we have a wrangler of the month? 18:44:29 <davi> sometimes WONTFIX can be as a wish for future version 18:44:34 <Brooke_> or a team with an appointed chair? 18:44:44 <gmcharlt> sekjal: I thnk that would be up to the QAM and the bug wranglers to work out 18:44:57 <cait> some bugs might be reported against older versions but still be existing on master 18:44:58 <thd> slef: I had read that but do you mean not maintained is that bugs reported against 3.0 would not be fixed if no longer maintained? 18:45:04 <sekjal> gmcharlt: sounds good 18:45:11 <Brooke_> should we then allow Ian to appoint as many bug wranglers as he deems fit? 18:45:12 <paul_p> Brooke_, team-member of the month is only used in Mc Donalds here, so it's really not something ppl are proud to be ;-) 18:45:25 * gmcharlt is in favor of having anybody who wants to wrangle bugs to get the title of Bug Wrangler, as long as they publicly commit to put in a reasonable amount of effort to it 18:45:37 <slef> thd: yes, and all the 2.x and 1.x ones. 18:46:03 <paul_p> slef, i fear it will be a mountain to move ! 18:46:08 <mtj__> gmcharlt++ , i agree 18:46:09 <paul_p> that's so many !!! 18:46:14 <paul_p> gmcharlt++ 18:46:21 <Brooke_> so then 18:46:24 <Brooke_> open position 18:46:25 <magnuse> gmcharlt++ 18:46:32 <Brooke_> that reports to the QA manager 18:46:41 <slef> paul_p: 140ish, plus some fraction of the 700+ bugs labelled master. 18:46:47 <Brooke_> and receives recognition at some point that they're an official bug wrangler 18:47:05 <Brooke_> the top wrangler can get a can of raid in the post ;) 18:47:08 <thd> slef: I assume that reporters would be notified with the suggestion that they login and reopen any bug which they believe still exists. 18:47:22 <slef> thd: reopen and update the labels, yes. 18:47:35 <schuster> part of the problem with the old ones it is hard to locate the originator... 18:47:35 <Brooke_> resolved: as many wranglers as will step forward 18:47:39 <paul_p> slef, /me think it would be more interesting to test/close pushed patches don't you agree ? 18:47:51 <gmcharlt> thd: slef: and if a bug is marked WONTFIX, a comment could be added that the WONTFIX was done semi-automatically, and is not meant as a moral pronouncement on the validity of the bug 18:47:52 <paul_p> s/interesting/useful/ 18:48:13 <thd> gmcharlt++ 18:48:31 <slef> paul_p: making it easier to find relevant things in bugzilla will free everyone's time for working on current development. 18:48:42 <paul_p> agreed 18:48:49 <schuster> slef++ 18:48:57 <slef> this is unfun grunt work, but it's been left too long 18:49:14 <Brooke_> moving on to admins for the Koha lists on Nabble 18:49:33 <paul_p> OK, rereading your proposal, I misunderstood something slef ! 18:49:35 <paul_p> slef++ 18:49:36 <thd> Can we have a label for closed by rule but without investigation? 18:49:40 <paul_p> very good idea ! 18:49:44 <gmcharlt> mtj: could you clarify what you mean by Nabble admin? 18:50:08 <gmcharlt> I thought Nabble itself was just one (of several) archives of the mailng list 18:50:12 <paul_p> why does not everybody in the world speak french? that would make my life so easier :D 18:50:12 <gmcharlt> *list 18:50:22 <mtj__> yeah, i would like to ask the admins at nabble, to grant access to the Koha lists at nabble.com 18:50:39 <mtj__> these lists... -> http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/ 18:51:00 <slef> It is, but the admin can update headers and so on. I think kados is the admin. 18:51:14 <mtj__> for 1 or 2 elected kc.org people 18:51:20 <gmcharlt> whoever it is did change the project link to koha-community.org 18:51:21 <slef> I got the koha nabble moved to the new site, but I find nabble very hard to use. 18:51:36 <slef> Ah, that was probably me whinging at them repeatedly :) 18:51:53 <gmcharlt> coo 18:51:57 <gmcharlt> cool, even 18:51:59 <slef> oh yeah, it says Hugo <Nabble> is the admin now. 18:52:04 <mtj__> gmcharlt: hugo, a nabble admin did that, as i asked him to , last week-ish 18:52:22 <slef> mtj__: ah, well done! I didn't think I got anywhere! 18:52:31 <mtj__> so currently, only hugo@nabble is an admin... 18:52:51 <paul_p> slef, previously, joshua upgraded all bug from N to N+1 when N was released. I think it means many bugs are now irrelevant, so setting WONTFIX is really a good idea ! 18:53:03 <slef> mtj__: are you willing to admin? 18:53:08 <slef> anyone else willing to admin? 18:53:16 <mtj__> i propose we elect 1/2 people here, and ask hugo et al nicely f they will grant them admin access 18:53:25 <cait> paul_p/slef: can we reopen bugs if we find they still apply to master/3.2? 18:53:26 * gmcharlt tosses name in the hat for redundancy's sake 18:53:32 <mtj__> i am willing to admin the nabble lists 18:53:36 <gmcharlt> cait: sure 18:53:43 <thd> slef: Can we have a label in bugzilla for closed by rule but without investigation? 18:53:49 <Brooke_> so I'm hearing gmcharlt and mtj 18:53:51 <paul_p> cait, of course ! 18:53:52 <Brooke_> anyone else? 18:53:57 <irma> Hi all - Irma from CALYX - sorry I am so late ... 18:54:27 <Brooke_> all in favour of gmcharlt and mtj as nabble admins 18:54:31 <mtj__> http://nabble-support.1.n2.nabble.com/Request-to-update-Koha-ILS-mailing-lists-topic-page-with-new-website-address-td6029182.html#a6030223 18:54:54 <slef> thd: I think a message is better, but maybe a bugzilla admin can tell us if that's possible. 18:54:58 <Brooke_> oi 18:55:00 <Brooke_> vote. 18:55:04 <space_librarian_home> +1 18:55:05 <slef> +1 18:55:11 <kmkale> +1 18:55:17 <jcamins> +1 18:55:19 <gmcharlt> thd: slef: yes, a new status could be added, but I prefer simply using a message 18:55:20 <slef> (anything so I don't have to use that site again!) 18:55:29 <hdl> +1 18:55:37 <paul_p> +1 18:55:38 <sekjal> +1 18:55:42 <mtj__> +1 18:55:50 <thd> gmcharlt: How can the message be found systematically? 18:56:06 <thd> +1 18:56:07 <gmcharlt> thd: why would it need to? 18:56:16 <hdl> thd: it will be sent to the reporter. 18:56:27 <gmcharlt> somebody who cares about a particular issue would either reopen it or file a new bug 18:56:39 <JesseM> +1 18:56:52 <magnuse> +1 18:57:15 <thd> gmcharlt: If you are looking for bugs which might be present but had been closed without investigation there should be a way to find them. 18:57:29 <Brooke_> #action motion carries 18:57:56 <slef> thd: search bug content for a phrase or tag we put in the message. 18:58:31 <Brooke_> moving on 18:58:39 <Brooke_> #topic KohaCon 11 18:58:50 <Brooke_> kmkale it's all yours :D 18:58:55 <kmkale> hi all 18:59:01 <slef> hi kmkale! 18:59:03 <thd> slef: The message would be fine if there is a consistent word or tag used. 18:59:08 <kmkale> Thanks to the commmunity form choosing India for Kohacon 11 18:59:24 <kmkale> I have prepared a Koha wiki page at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon2011 18:59:41 <kmkale> and a website at http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs ( this is running on Open Conference System from http://pkp.sfu.ca/ocs/) 18:59:45 <cait> paul_p: I suggest adding the bugs list as qa contact before closing those bugs - it's missing on a lot of them 19:00:04 <magnuse> kmkale++ 19:00:20 <kmkale> At our end we are setting up sub-committees to handle conference arrangements, accomodation assistance, travelling guide, food guide, a day trip to Mumbai, getting sponsors, cultural program / conference dinner etc.. 19:00:28 <Brooke_> #link http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11 19:01:03 <paul_p> kmkale, the kohacon11.vpmthane.org is very slow from here at this time. Is there a known reason for this slowness ? 19:01:21 * chris_n = Chris Nighswonger, 3.2.x Release Maintainer... and very late :P 19:01:41 <gmcharlt> chris_n: and now 3.4.x Release Maintainer ;) 19:01:47 <paul_p> chris_n, too late, you've been elected 3.4 Rmaint :D 19:01:50 <kmkale> paul_p: its hosted inside campus. which has nill traffic atm. so i see no reason 19:02:10 <kmkale> may be a dns or routes issue between the two end points? 19:02:14 <gmcharlt> kmkale: would you be willing to extend the deadline call for papers a bit, say, to the end of July? 19:02:15 <chris_n> :-) 19:02:23 <paul_p> so it can be my connexion. Or india <=> france that is slow somewhere 19:02:40 <kmkale> gmcharlt: sure. I want us to discuss and decide these sorta points 19:02:57 <kmkale> may be form a comitee here to discuss and decidce 19:03:10 <gmcharlt> kmkale: cool. another question - are you considering papers to be distinct from presentation proposals? 19:03:16 <Brooke_> worse ideas have been proposed ;) 19:03:17 <gmcharlt> or the same thing 19:03:27 <kmkale> same thing basically 19:03:31 <gmcharlt> ok 19:03:45 <kmkale> what you see at the above site is what comes with the ocs basically 19:03:50 <gmcharlt> gotcha 19:03:51 <kmkale> needs work 19:04:06 <kmkale> I would like us to form a committee of volunteers here to work on call for papers, paper selection, presentation scheduling, keynote address etc. 19:04:22 <paul_p> it's a cool framework to help organizing a conf if it's what is provided by default ! 19:04:48 <kmkale> thanks to SandeepBhavsar for finding and suggesting it 19:04:53 <gmcharlt> I would like to volunteer to be a (remote) member of that committee 19:05:01 <paul_p> SandeepBhavsar++ 19:05:03 <space_librarian_home> I volunteer too 19:05:05 <kmkale> great 19:05:07 <paul_p> (wow long name to type ;-) ) 19:05:25 <kmkale> Also let us discuss and decide conference volunteers meeting times, the general timeline for events leading up to the conference like call for papers duration, last date of papers, programme finalization etc 19:05:43 <paul_p> kmkale, I candidate to help on the hackfest organization 19:06:02 <kmkale> super 19:06:14 <kmkale> paul_p had mentioned that he would like a longer hackfest following the kohacon. We can discuss that and decide on the number of days. I am pretty sure we can manage to provide a venue like a conference room or lab or a classroom for the hackfest duration. 19:06:34 <kmkale> with wi-fi 19:06:55 <Brooke_> wi-fi and beer? Catalyst gave you a high bar, ye know... 19:07:10 <paul_p> I'm probably with chris the only one who participated to the 3 previous hackfest, so have a little experience now ;-) 19:07:11 <kmkale> aye venue is a college 19:07:19 <kmkale> so no beer and no smoking 19:07:44 <kmkale> but we can all go out after hours ;) 19:07:55 <thd> kmkale: Is there a room big enough for all the people who voted for Thane? 19:07:59 <paul_p> (thinking of it, yes, chris & me are the only ones who made the 3 conferences in France/USA/NZ ;-) ) 19:07:59 <gmcharlt> kmkale: that might make for better code, though, so it's all good ;) 19:08:01 <slef> please remember that each extra day increases the costs for attendees which increases the cost of Koha for libraries if it is priced fairly 19:08:44 <kmkale> thd: we have 4 seminar halls of 200 capacities each all interconnected with polycokm video conferencing hardware 19:09:03 <kmkale> so we can have parallel sessions if we get that much participation 19:09:13 <paul_p> kmkale, how many ppl from india to you think we may get ? (for the user conf I mean) ? 19:09:34 <paul_p> (really up to 800 ?) 19:09:36 <mtj__> slef: the hackfest days are optional tho, so people dont need to attend those 19:09:38 <kmkale> paul_p: I have done 4 or 5 koha trainings at various colleges so far 19:09:55 <magnuse> slef: everyone doesn't have to stay for the whole hackfest... 19:09:56 <kmkale> at each one ( paid trainings at that ) we had to send back librarians 19:10:26 <hdl> or you can choose between hackfest and user conference 19:10:29 <slef> mtj__: optional, but seems to be expected. 19:10:38 <kmkale> so we will get excellent indian participation. people are eager to learn Koha 19:10:48 <paul_p> wow... well : NZ 4million ppl, 60ppl at the conference, India 1.2billion, so 300x, the goal is 18 000 attendees then :D 19:10:49 <kmkale> we need good speakers and topics. 19:11:01 <thd> kmkale: You would need a large theatre or sports arena to hold everyone who voted for Thane :) 19:11:02 <magnuse> paul_p++ ;-) 19:11:09 <kmkale> which will help librarians get started in Koha and help developers get into koha 19:11:43 <hdl> not only into koha as it stands... but maybe also as it could grow. 19:12:02 <slef> paul_p: more realistically, it should be 660 people (= first choice votes for Thane, less some who can't go for various reasons, plus some who put it as a lower choice) 19:12:18 <space_librarian_home> kmkale: so, do you have any themes for the kohacon you wish to highlight? 19:12:33 <paul_p> what about some workshops about koha + other OSS tools for libraries (greenstone, Drupal/Joomla,...) 19:12:44 <slef> Brooke_: kmkale: sorry, what do we need to do here? 19:12:47 <hdl> kete 19:12:56 <hdl> Dspace 19:13:02 <paul_p> oops... sorry to have forgottent kete ... 19:13:40 <Brooke_> I think 19:13:43 <kmkale> What i have in mind is help librarians and developers get started and hooked on Koha 19:14:03 <Brooke_> we empower kmkale redundantly to go form a committee and report back with their progress next month 19:14:14 <paul_p> Brooke_++ 19:14:22 <gmcharlt> Brooke_: sounds good 19:14:24 <space_librarian_home> Brooke_++ 19:14:30 <chris_n> +1 19:14:35 <gmcharlt> kmkale: I also suggest that you call monthly KohaCon meetings in #koha 19:14:36 <slef> kmkale: can you remove the eye test from http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11/user/account please, or at least provide another way to register? 19:14:54 <thd> Brooke++ 19:14:54 <slef> (OpenID would be good) 19:14:55 <kmkale> slef: will do 19:15:00 <thd> gmcharlt++ 19:15:11 <kmkale> gmcharlt: will do 19:15:21 <kmkale> need more volunteers 19:15:23 <slef> Brooke_++ 19:15:28 <Brooke_> anything else, other than excitement about KohaCon 11? 19:15:37 <gmcharlt> KohaCon11++ 19:15:43 <slef> KohaCon11++ 19:15:44 <Brooke_> #help KohaCon 11 committee members and volunteers: see Kmkale 19:15:45 <kmkale> are we all good with tyhe proposed dates? 19:15:47 <slef> kmkale: thanks 19:15:51 <kmkale> what about hackfest duration 19:15:52 <Brooke_> one further note 19:16:10 <Brooke_> I'm very happy that no one went for each other's jugular upon hearing the results. 19:16:16 <paul_p> kmkale, let's speak of it on a commetee : depend on what we want to do during this fest. 19:16:25 <kmkale> paul_p: ok 19:16:28 <Brooke_> I hope in future as the conference rotates that everyone gets a crack at having it in their respective backyards. :) 19:16:43 <thd> kmkale: Does the date include both the conference and the developers' sessions? 19:16:48 <mtj__> kmkale: i'm volunteering to help 19:16:48 <paul_p> As i've already said, I think it could be worthwhile to have 2 parts : "learning to hack" then "real/deep hacking" 19:16:56 <kmkale> are we all good with the proposed dates? we can throw open registrations and start working on accomodation and travel then 19:17:08 <slef> kmkale: I'm OK with those dates as far as I know just now. 19:17:33 <paul_p> kmkale, I think that unless there is a worldwide event at those dates, it's OK 19:17:38 <schuster> paul_p ++ learning to hack... I'm still trying to figure that out! 19:17:52 <space_librarian_home> dates look good. 19:17:53 <paul_p> mmm... thinking of it : when is the rugby world cup exactly ? 19:17:59 <Brooke_> it's diwali then, yes? 19:18:00 <thd> kmkale: How do the dates relate to paul_p's proposal for two part hacking period? 19:18:00 <space_librarian_home> september 19:18:04 <Brooke_> september Paul 19:18:14 <kmkale> Brooke_: Diwali ends 27th October 19:18:18 <Brooke_> perfect 19:18:19 <kmkale> just past Diwali 19:18:35 <kmkale> but you could come a bit early to enjoy the festival of lights :) 19:18:46 <slef> 9 Sep - 23 Oct http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/pools/index.html 19:18:48 <paul_p> Brooke_, start on sept, ends on oct, 23 19:19:12 <Brooke_> so rugger buggers have no excuse :P 19:19:21 <paul_p> so no overlap (that would be a real problem for chris & all kiwis ;-) ) 19:19:28 <space_librarian_home> yes! 19:19:29 <space_librarian_home> :p 19:19:52 <mtj__> i think i'm cuming early, for Diwali 19:20:05 <Brooke_> okay moving on 19:20:13 <thd> paul_p: How do the closing date relate to your proposal for two part hacking period? 19:20:14 <Brooke_> #topic Security Issues 19:20:18 <pastebot0> "gmcharlt" at 68.101.78.67 pasted "security list proposal" (24 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/163 19:20:25 <kmkale> thd: conference 3 days 1 day Mumbai trip 3 day hackfest = 31st Oct to 6th Nov 19:20:28 <gmcharlt> #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Security_Mailing_List_Proposal 19:20:36 <paul_p> thd, I think the closing date could/should be later than 6th 19:20:40 <schuster> FYI international library conference tracker - http://www.conferencealerts.com/library.htm 19:20:41 <kmkale> but we can extend the hackfest if community decides to do so 19:21:14 <paul_p> what i've experienced : after 3days of conf everybody is tired & happy to have a restful week-end. Then hackfest 19:21:14 <gmcharlt> details are in the link I just posted, but to boil down the proposal, I propose creating a new limited purpose mailing list for the confidential reporting and discussion of security bugs that aren't reported to Bugzilla 19:21:20 <kmkale> mtj__: good for you. Its the biggest festival here 19:21:22 <gmcharlt> with goal of quick resolution to security issues 19:21:31 <gmcharlt> and transparency via a time-delayed public archive 19:21:38 <thd> paul_p++ 19:21:39 <slef> I suggest we should recycle koha-manage to be that list. 19:21:47 <slef> We don't need two private lists. 19:21:57 <gmcharlt> slef: I disagree; I'd rather that we simply close koha-manage 19:22:08 <paul_p> slef, koha-manage is not used. Whe have some archives that should not be set public 19:22:09 <thd> A restful weekend is much better than tired people at a hackfest. 19:22:10 <gmcharlt> "koha-manage" as a name does not apply to the purpose I'm proposing koha-security for 19:22:14 <paul_p> I prefer to close it definetly 19:22:22 <gmcharlt> and it's not like it's expensive to create mailing lists 19:22:27 <paul_p> I agree with galen 19:22:47 <mtj__> me too 19:22:49 <slef> I think labelling it koha-security will attract misdirected posts about more general security topics. 19:22:57 <paul_p> about delayed archives = is there a way to do that wit mailman ? 19:23:15 <gmcharlt> paul_p: I'm sure something can be hacked together; I'm willing to work out the details 19:23:36 <slef> it's not expensive to create mailing lists, but it is expensive to admin them well and to have the right people subscribed and participating well. 19:23:42 <gmcharlt> slef: we can simply redirect people to koha-devel in such instances 19:24:22 <paul_p> yes, and on mailman list header & koha-community.org, we can be very clear ! 19:24:23 <thd> gmcharlt: are the bugs so dangerous that they need to have the security of not being published until they are patched? 19:24:29 <paul_p> thd, right 19:24:34 <gmcharlt> paul_p: to confirm, BibLibre would be willing to provide hosting for such a list, (along with the other lists you already host?) 19:24:36 <slef> Amend this proposal to close koha-manage too? 19:24:50 <gmcharlt> slef: +1 to closing koha-manage 19:25:08 <paul_p> thd, the 3.2.5 contains a fix that let anyone without any permission delete all authorities in your catalogue :\ 19:25:22 <paul_p> (well the fix prevent this, not enable it ;-) ) 19:25:30 <paul_p> +1 to closing koha-manage 19:25:41 <mtj__> +1 to closing koha-manage 19:25:44 <gmcharlt> thd: there are some where as a matter of practice, having a *bit* of time to work out a fix would help 19:25:51 <slef> paul_p: the current mailman listinfo pages are mostly unhelpful, containing only the default bugzilla text. 19:26:09 <gmcharlt> thd: plus, as was the case with the specific incident, the person who found the security issue was not willing to simply post it to bugzilla 19:26:24 <gmcharlt> and I'd rather that we get security bug reports rather than not get them 19:26:32 <paul_p> slef, what could/should we add ? (correct english welcomed !) 19:26:40 <schuster> +1 close koha-manage - that list gave me fits way back to KohaCon09... forgiveness requested if you were on it. Chances are you were not the one causing the consternation! 19:27:10 <mtj__> yeah, koha-manage does have some bad karma 19:27:20 <cait> +1 for gmcharlt's proposal 19:27:37 <cait> and +1 for closing koha-manage 19:27:37 <schuster> How often do we have "security" concerns of this magnitude? 19:27:43 <paul_p> about the security ML, if it's a invitation-only mailing list, then ppl can't write to it. So how will ppl be able to report a security issue ? 19:27:44 <thd> How do you decide who is safe enough to subscribe? 19:27:51 <gmcharlt> schuster: thus far, once or twice a year 19:28:03 <gmcharlt> I don't expect that koha-security will be high-volume 19:28:04 <slef> paul_p: permitted senders != subscribers 19:28:07 <paul_p> schuster, the more eyes seing the code, the more ppl finding such problems ;-) 19:28:39 <paul_p> slef, yep, but if anyone can send, we may get zillions of spams. But nevermind, we will deal with it. 19:28:56 <schuster> Obviously the person who reported this figured out who to talk with... I suspect then the RM and others were contacted to "find help" to resolve the problem? 19:28:58 <paul_p> schuster, just FYI, the guy who reported this one is ... a french catholic monk ! 19:29:02 <slef> paul_p: so you'll need a moderator 19:29:17 <gmcharlt> slef: I am willing to moderate and despam 19:29:23 <paul_p> schuster, exactly 19:29:27 <slef> and one who is a bit faster than the current list moderators IIRC 19:29:43 <Brooke_> okie dokie 19:29:56 <Brooke_> so is it safe to presume we've resolved to shut manage and open security? 19:29:57 <gmcharlt> schuster: yes, basically because I told the reporter what to do 19:30:05 <slef> paul_p: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_List_Welcome is the suggestion for the koha list, but it doesn't seem to be on http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha yet. 19:30:09 <gmcharlt> schuster: I'd just like to have it a little more formalized 19:30:37 <paul_p> slef, for this one (katipo.co.nz), I can't do anything ;-) 19:30:43 <slef> I think the name should be something like koha-devel-private 19:30:59 <schuster> Dislikes closed lists - and it has been beat into him with FOSS to stay as transparent as possible... 19:31:13 <slef> but then I believe security should be full disclosure 19:31:22 <slef> which I think puts me in a minority here. 19:31:25 <gmcharlt> slef: "koha-devel-private" is broader scope than I intend 19:31:44 <gmcharlt> slef: this is not inconsistent with full disclosure 19:31:54 <slef> gmcharlt: how is it not? 19:31:58 <cait> I think private is not a good name 19:32:06 <cait> koha-securitiy-issues or something like that 19:32:11 <slef> cait: call a cat a cat. 19:32:12 <thd> cait++ 19:32:27 <paul_p> slef, once we will be on debian with apt-get update koha, I think Full disc will be fair. But as ofnow, many libraries can't afford checking everyday & installing immediatly a security release i think 19:32:48 <gmcharlt> slef: anybody who cares to make a fully public report of a security issue and is irresponsible enough to also publicize an exploit is not prevented from doing so 19:33:02 * Brooke_ has always wondered what data Librarians stick in their systems to make security an issue in the first place... 19:33:10 <thd> slef: The list contents should be disclosed after the bug is fixed or found to be mistakenly reported.. 19:33:23 <slef> paul_p: most libraries don't apt-get update AFAICT. 19:33:30 <cait> Brooke: data about persons 19:33:43 <davi> security coordinated disclosure++ 19:33:44 <gmcharlt> Brooke_: long history on that one; there were various incidents back in the day when the FBI did go after library patron records 19:34:21 <davi> just koha-security would be OK IMHO 19:34:29 <paul_p> librarians, no. but libraries sysop I think yes. And if we are on Debian, we will be on security updates as well, no ? So anyone just checking this list will be aware. 19:34:31 <thd> gmcharlt: They still do. 19:34:31 * Brooke_ spots a dead horse 19:34:41 <paul_p> koha-security sounds OK to me as well 19:34:44 <gmcharlt> and as with the bug fixed in 3.2.5, security issues also mean things like holes that allow an external attacker to cause arbitrary damage to a database 19:34:52 <slef> paul_p: have you met any who do? 19:35:10 <paul_p> yes, some, at cnrs labs 19:35:26 <slef> thd: ok, but that should be less than a year, right? 19:35:28 <Brooke_> so, let's set this up 19:35:32 <Brooke_> and just do it 19:35:35 <paul_p> (but I agree, none in small public libraries. That's why we strongly suggest hosted Koha as the best solution ;-) ) 19:35:36 <slef> sorry, six months 19:35:43 <Brooke_> cause the meeting is v long by now 19:35:57 <gmcharlt> ok 19:36:04 <mtj__> lets vote on the security list name, shall we? 19:36:04 <Brooke_> #topic time and date of next meeitng 19:36:04 <gmcharlt> I will work with BibLibre to start the list 19:36:06 <thd> slef: Disclosure should be as soon as people have had a reasonable time to update their installations. 19:36:15 <paul_p> Brooke_++, /me hungry ;-) 19:36:16 <gmcharlt> we can evaulate it after a few months 19:36:31 <jwagner> Question -- who is allowed to be a member of that list? 19:36:31 <slef> I'm really unhappy about encouraging security bugs into the dark, but I seem to be in a minority of one. 19:36:42 <slef> jwagner: read the links gmcharlt posted, please. 19:36:53 <jwagner> I did, what did I miss? 19:37:03 <slef> "membership to be RMs, RMaints, QAMs, past, present, and future" 19:37:04 <gmcharlt> slef: I guess I must have imagined writing things like "preference to simply use Bugzilla 19:37:04 <gmcharlt> " 19:37:04 <Brooke_> 6 April acceptable? 19:37:21 <paul_p> apr, 4-8th there will be the sprint in Marseille 19:37:25 <slef> gmcharlt: the list name sends mixed messages. 19:37:26 <gmcharlt> jwagner: and "other interested devs can join on request 19:37:26 <gmcharlt> " 19:37:27 <davi> slef, They will be on the dark, all koha dev will know, just that we will not publicity them 19:37:37 <paul_p> many ppl expected to work on 3.4 this week 19:37:41 <Brooke_> 13 April 19:37:42 <Brooke_> ? 19:37:45 <davi> s/They will/They will not/ 19:37:49 <paul_p> (not meaning it's not a good week for this meeting) 19:37:50 <jwagner> OK, thanks -- missed that line. 19:37:59 <gmcharlt> paul_p: actually, I think that 4/6 would be good even with the sprint 19:38:08 <gmcharlt> you can add a report on the sprint to the agenda 19:38:09 <thd> slef: I think that we should encourage people to describe the type of problem publicly without enough public detail to reproduce the issue where it is too scary. 19:38:15 <paul_p> gmcharlt, yes, I think so, just reminding that ;-) 19:38:27 <Brooke_> so back to 6 April? 19:38:44 <gmcharlt> 6 April 19:38:53 <paul_p> Brooke_, OK to me. And if daylight time for europe it will even be better ;-) 19:40:00 <slef> I've no preference between 6 and 13. 19:40:56 <magnuse> i'd say 6th - might be good to have a few days before the scheduled relaese on 22nd, perhaps? 19:41:02 <space_librarian_home> 6 April is good. 19:41:04 * kmkale yawns its past 1 am 19:41:13 <slef> kmkale puts us all to shame 19:41:14 <thd> slef: I presume that Debian has no secret security related lists but I assume that there are secret security lists for upstream projects while patches are being developed. 19:41:52 <paul_p> kmkale, sweet dreams ! 19:41:56 <kmkale> so 6th is it? what time? 19:42:03 <Brooke_> that's the question 19:42:14 <Brooke_> who takes the bullet this go 19:42:25 <paul_p> 8 hours sooner than today ? 19:42:31 <space_librarian_home> ack! 19:42:37 <space_librarian_home> not for the kiwis! 19:42:46 <mtj__> 12+ hours the start of this meeting 19:42:47 <gmcharlt> thd: an example http://httpd.apache.org/security_report.html 19:42:47 <paul_p> should we do8 hours sooner than the previous meeting each time ? 19:42:50 <slef> kmkale is in the worst time now IIRC 19:43:01 <kmkale> slef: not so bad 19:43:07 <space_librarian_home> It's going 8:45am here 19:43:08 <paul_p> I think no time is easy for everybody 19:43:22 <davi> thd, there can be at least some private emails exchange upstream 19:43:25 <schuster> paul_p ++ 19:43:28 <paul_p> that's why I suggest to have a lasttime -8H everytime 19:43:50 <schuster> If it is important people will be there... 19:43:51 <thd> space_librarian_home: Your time will be very reasonable compared to the US. 19:43:52 <kmkale> 8hrs sooner i.e. 10.00 utc works for me 19:44:01 <mtj__> paul_p++ yeah, i agree 19:44:08 <Brooke_> I'd propse 8 19:44:09 <sekjal> rotating by 8 is good.... but i think we've been going + 8H... last one was 10:00 UTC 19:44:13 <paul_p> and next time that will be 2utc, and next time ... 19:44:15 <space_librarian_home> thd: point taken. 19:44:22 <Brooke_> that way kiwis aren't also taking a hit 19:44:27 <thd> 10.00 UTC ++ 19:44:41 <magnuse> 10.00 UTC ++ 19:44:41 <Brooke_> it's horribly early for yanks, but at least it's good for others 19:44:59 <davi> 10.00 UTC ++ 19:44:59 <gmcharlt> Brooke_: we're used to it 19:45:06 <gmcharlt> +1 10:00 UTC+0 19:45:16 <slef> +1 10:00 UTC+0 19:45:26 <slef> (is 2 UTC good for anyone? We keep avoiding it) 19:45:29 <paul_p> Brooke_, , and next time, 2utc will be awful for us in europe 19:45:44 <Brooke_> that is good for kiwis slef 19:46:01 <Brooke_> so set 19:46:10 <Brooke_> 10AM UTC 6 April 19:46:10 <space_librarian_home> and for west coast US 19:46:22 <thd> Brooke_: Are you proposing 2:00 UTC? 19:46:24 <mtj__> so +8 hours is the new rule for meeting starts... 19:46:24 <Brooke_> #action 10 AM UTC 6 April 19:46:30 <paul_p> suggestion for next agenda : everybody speak french and come to france timezone :D 19:46:33 <Brooke_> #endmeeting