14:01:55 <kmkale> #startmeeting
14:01:55 <huginn> Meeting started Tue Mar  8 14:01:55 2011 UTC.  The chair is kmkale. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:55 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:02:16 <slef> #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon11_Volunteers
14:02:42 <kmkale> #topic introductions
14:03:13 <kmkale> Koustubha Kale VPM, Thane, Anant Corporation, Granthalaya.org Kohacon 11 organizer
14:03:21 * slef = MJ Ray, undef, software.coop
14:03:45 * atz Joe Atzberger, State Library of Ohio
14:05:14 <kmkale> gmcharlt paul_p mtj around?
14:05:25 <gmcharlt> kmkale: yep
14:05:30 <paul_p> kmkale, yep
14:05:36 <kmkale> :)
14:05:46 <kmkale> #topic What needs to be done
14:05:49 <paul_p> paul_p, BibLibre
14:05:54 * druthb == D Ruth Bavousett, ByWater Solutions.
14:07:12 <kmkale> paul_p: you having one of two to have attended all kohacon's, would you like to elaborate on "What needs to be done"
14:07:56 * magnuse Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway (mostly lurking)
14:07:56 <paul_p> kmkale, yes, thx. The 2 parts are really differents (conf & hackfest)
14:08:31 <slef> #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon10_Plan#To_Do_List
14:08:45 <paul_p> and I feel we could/should have 3 parts in fact : user conf / new developers conf / hackers conf (new developers interested staying for hackers conf if they want)
14:09:02 <paul_p> so what's need to be done is different on those 3 parts
14:09:19 <kmkale> thanks slef
14:09:22 <kmkale> Let me give a summary of what we are doing at VPM
14:10:25 <kmkale> we have organized sub comitees for accommodation, travel assistance, venue organization, food, sponsorships
14:11:12 <kmkale> that leaves programm development, scheduling, format etc
14:11:45 <kmkale> I have a proposal from VPM people about the format of conference day's
14:12:11 <kmkale> 2 sessions per day with lubnch break between them
14:12:52 <kmkale> each session of presentations of 15 mins followed by 5 mins q & a
14:13:08 <kmkale> 1 plenary on pre decided topic and speaker per session
14:13:17 <kmkale> what say?
14:14:27 <slef> What are the start/end times of days?
14:14:37 <paul_p> kmkale, I think sessions of 15mn is really short.
14:14:39 <slef> as in how many presentations per session?
14:14:53 <paul_p> I think longer sessions, but less sessions is better.
14:14:54 <kmkale> start end times are up to us. can be anything
14:15:07 <kmkale> paul_p: suggest time duration be as per presentation
14:15:30 <slef> Sorry, I thought a proposal about the format would include that.
14:15:49 <slef> I think most at '10 were 30mins
14:15:52 <kmkale> depending on how many presentations we get
14:16:31 <mtj> hi folks, running a little late…
14:16:32 <kmkale> lets say 9.30 am to 4.30 pm day
14:17:04 <kmkale> with an hours lunch break
14:17:30 <paul_p> do you plan to do a break in the middle of each day ? it's a good idea imho
14:17:32 <slef> maybe some people would like to do 15+5 talk+Q and some 5+5 or 50+10, but should we have 25+5 as the default?
14:17:42 <paul_p> (socializing++ ++ during KohaCon !!!)
14:17:44 <kmkale> with 30 mins sessions that gives us 12 sessions a day
14:17:54 <paul_p> (off is as important as ON ;-) )
14:18:14 <kmkale> paul_p: yes a hours lunch break at say 12.30 or 1 pm
14:18:46 <kmkale> with a 4.30 close gives us plenty of socializing opp
14:18:47 <paul_p> kmkale, I mean a small break at 10 and at 15 (for example)
14:19:00 <paul_p> http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/2010/program/day1.html => 1 hour for each speaker usually
14:19:09 <slef> I was wrong :)
14:19:19 <slef> Never trust my memory. Let that be a lesson to you.
14:19:24 <kmkale> yes a tea coffee break in the  middle of morning and afternoon halfs? can do
14:19:25 <paul_p> ;-)
14:19:26 <gmcharlt> 30 minute per session is a bit short in my experience, - 45 is more common
14:19:32 <gmcharlt> 30 minutes can be workable, though
14:19:45 <paul_p> gmcharlt++ => 45 is better, 30 is workable.
14:19:48 <kmkale> its for us to suggest / decide
14:19:48 <gmcharlt> one thing I would like to suggest is scheduling one or two lightening talk sessions
14:20:08 <slef> gmcharlt: 45 including Q+A or 45+?
14:20:24 <kmkale> can be 1 hr. then we can take lesser presentations. IMHO all depends on number of presenters we get. Good papers that is
14:20:33 <gmcharlt> 45 including Q+A, scheduled on hourly boundaries to allow time to move between sessions
14:20:40 <paul_p> if we have maaannnyyy attendees, do you plan to have sessions splitted in 2 (10:00 speech A in room X and speech B in room Y, then 11:00, repeat). Thus audience would be splitted in 2
14:20:41 <kmkale> talk sessions ++
14:20:47 <gmcharlt> (assuming that geographic distance between the session rooms matters in this case)
14:20:55 <paul_p> gmcharlt, ++
14:21:07 <kmkale> paul_p: yes if we have more than 2000 attendees and enough speakers
14:21:13 <kmkale> sorry make that 200
14:21:21 <kmkale> s/2000/200
14:21:35 <paul_p> kmkale, remember your goal is 18k attendees :D
14:21:41 <kmkale> :)
14:21:51 <slef> #link http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/ToDo
14:22:09 <paul_p> we can also have some lightning talks
14:22:14 <kmkale> if you have seen the map link there is a stadium nearby. I will have to apply to the municipal commissioner then for special permission ;)
14:22:36 <gmcharlt> kmkale: we'd need to add in some football sessions as well if we end up in the stadium ;)
14:22:50 <kmkale> its crecket here gmcharlt
14:22:54 <kmkale> cricket
14:23:10 <gmcharlt> kmkale: good to know :)
14:23:38 <kmkale> so lets say 1 plenary / keynote per 1/2 day session and or a talk session
14:23:39 <atz> lightning talk format was highly valuable at code4lib (again) this year.
14:23:47 <slef> not sure if anyone except the English ever played football in cricket stadiums much :)
14:23:54 <kmkale> talk time duration?
14:24:32 <slef> 45 usually, some other options in special sessions
14:24:34 <slef> ?
14:24:48 <kmkale> each presentation to be of 45 mins with a 10 mins q&a ??
14:24:59 <gmcharlt> kmkale: sounds good to me
14:25:09 <paul_p> kmkale, ++ too
14:25:09 <mtj> me too :)
14:25:28 <paul_p> +5mn move your body to the next conf room ;-)
14:26:19 <kmkale> that gives us a target of 4 presentations per day plus one key note and one lightning talk
14:26:32 <kmkale> am i correct in my additions?
14:26:55 <paul_p> 4 or 5 ?
14:26:55 <wahanui1> 5
14:27:26 <kmkale> start time 9.30 ok?
14:27:33 <kmkale> and close time 4.30 ok?
14:27:40 <slef> kmkale: I'd wait and see if lightnings are one per session or best all together. Probably depends what comes in.
14:28:01 <kmkale> with a 15 mins tea/coffee break plus an hours lunch break
14:28:40 <kmkale> ok that brings us to call for papers. can anyone help in writing it?
14:29:01 <gmcharlt> kmkale: I can write a draft
14:29:05 <gmcharlt> when do you need it?
14:29:12 <slef> gmcharlt: update last year's?
14:29:12 <kmkale> gr8 gmcharlt++
14:29:23 <gmcharlt> slef: yep, most likely
14:29:30 <slef> gmcharlt: http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11/author/submit
14:29:36 <kmkale> gmcharlt why not send it asap?
14:29:53 <gmcharlt> kmkale: OK, I'll send you something to look at later today
14:30:13 <gmcharlt> i.e, in the next couple hours
14:30:32 <slef> kmkale: submission process needs configuring before the call goes out.
14:30:33 <kmkale> I have registrations working so shall we throw the registrations open and announce on the lists? http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11/schedConf/registration
14:31:02 <kmkale> slef: what do you propose? do we have a peer review kinda system? I think we should.
14:31:22 <gmcharlt> kmkale: if you're up to it, I'd like to suggest a code4lib-style voting on the presentation proposals
14:31:44 <slef> kmkale: also call for help writing travel guides?
14:31:55 <kmkale> slef: yep
14:32:04 * kmkale sucks at writing stuff
14:32:30 <slef> kmkale: I would leave it pretty open, but warn there may be a review stage if there are far more talks than can be accommodated?
14:32:31 <kmkale> gmcharlt: ":code4lib-style voting on the presentation proposals" how to?
14:33:15 <gmcharlt> kmkale: basically, solicit the presentations, then prior to the presentation, hold an open vote of the community to choose which presentations make it to the program
14:33:19 <kmkale> at this stage lets get proposals in. then we form a comitee to have a look at whats good
14:33:25 <kmkale> aahh
14:33:27 <slef> kmkale: spelling error in http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11/schedConf/registration (should be participants, says dict)
14:33:43 <gmcharlt> this assumes, of course, that we get more presentations than slots, which is likely
14:33:47 <kmkale> thanks slef
14:33:50 <slef> gmcharlt: popularity_contests--
14:34:17 <kmkale> gmcharlt: we may get many from India but with dodgy quality
14:34:30 <kmkale> do we propose a theme for papers in the call for papers?
14:34:40 <slef> how about...
14:35:03 <slef> first of all, call for keynotes, then arrange those into sessions and call for talks on each keynote theme?
14:35:27 <slef> or am I making this too complicated when there is less time than ideal?
14:35:33 <kmkale> or call for papers and keynotes then arrange them into sessions?
14:35:36 <paul_p> could we have more presentations than slot & say ppl would have to decide between speak 1 and 2 ?
14:35:53 <paul_p> or say speak 1, 2, 3 are done twice, so everyone will miss 1 (but just one)
14:36:06 <kmkale> paul_p: if we have enopugh attendees / speakers we can arrange for parallel sessions
14:36:39 <gmcharlt> kmkale: I'd expect that would be quite likely (having parallel sessions)
14:36:54 <gmcharlt> the Evergreen conference, for instance, manages 3 tracks of sessions with about ~200 attendees
14:37:04 <kmkale> did we have parallel sessions in prewvious kohacons?
14:37:08 <gmcharlt> and the KohaCon in Texas had two or three tracks, as I recall
14:37:14 <kmkale> great
14:37:46 <kmkale> so lets say send out a call for papers and keynotes with a few themes?
14:37:52 <slef> It depends on the audience and what comes in.
14:37:54 <kmkale> then arrange what we get into sessions?
14:38:11 <kmkale> and then decide on parallel sessions etc depending on number
14:39:06 <kmkale> any ideas about themes?
14:41:17 <mtj> migrations, tuning, hosting
14:41:29 <mtj> customising opacs
14:41:53 <paul_p> in Paris, we had only 1 session iirc
14:41:53 <slef> customising++
14:42:00 <gmcharlt> customizing++
14:42:05 <mtj> not really themes?, but some general ideas
14:42:07 <slef> paul_p: I thought there were 2?
14:42:22 * slef has vague memories of passing out from the heat in the second session
14:42:27 <gmcharlt> another idea - spreading Koha; something aimed at convincing administrators to look at it
14:42:33 <paul_p> We had only one large room, so I think it was only 1
14:42:42 <slef> paul_p: do you mean 1 track?
14:43:03 <kmkale> aye spreading koha both to librarians and to developers
14:43:09 <mtj> nice idea gmcharlt
14:43:20 <slef> paul_p: as in, serial sessions
14:43:28 <paul_p> only 1 track, right = http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/KohaCon-2-3-Mai-2006-ENSMP-Demandez-le-programme-td3069529.html
14:43:51 <slef> gmcharlt: we'd need library consultants to submit it, true
14:44:27 <slef> do any of the archives offer us a neat overview of topics/themes discussed over the last year?
14:44:28 <kmkale> spreading koha++
14:44:47 <gmcharlt> slef: I don't recall that the Texas conference had a particular theme, as such
14:44:55 <mtj> and teaching/encouraging libraries to attempt Koha install/migrations themselves
14:45:29 <kmkale> #help gmcharlt to draft call for papers
14:45:38 <paul_p> kmkale, do you think attendees will be more "I don't nothing about OSS & Koha" or "I may be interested in Koha, let me know more" ?
14:45:55 <paul_p> the programme would/could be different depending on the expected audience.
14:46:01 <slef> mtj: I'm unsure of that, for more than the obvious reason (my sales), because it risks koha becoming seen as more for those who want to try DIY
14:46:07 <kmkale> paul_p: attendees will be interested in Koha, let me know more
14:46:38 <paul_p> kmkale, in Paris, day 1 was for full-newbies day 2 was "I already use or plan to use Koha, tell me more"
14:47:05 <slef> mtj: but definitely a more mainstream intro to the liveCD and virtual machine versions would be good.
14:47:15 <kmkale> paul_p: koha awareness is quite high
14:47:26 <slef> mtj: I think there was a cloud/VM type intro in hackfest, but not in con?
14:47:52 <kmkale> somebody had suggested sessions on how to setup dev installs and getting started on koha dev
14:47:57 <kmkale> or was it for the hackfest?
14:48:27 <mtj> kmkale: hackfest i think
14:48:45 <slef> I guess a session on community participation for the masses (bug reporting demo, RFC demo, ...) might be good, if we get talks offered?
14:48:46 <kmkale> anyone interested in helping with the site http://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs
14:48:49 <kmkale> ?
14:48:50 <mtj> kohacon10 hackfest
14:49:03 <kmkale> yes slef good idea
14:49:28 <kmkale> i can give access to the site
14:49:29 <slef> kmkale: what sort of help? I'm now registered, thank you for the change.
14:50:04 <kmkale> I have put several placeholders in the site where I dont know what text to put
14:51:40 <gmcharlt> slef: +1 # community participation session
14:52:45 <paul_p> do we switch to the 2nd part of the KohaCon now ? (not clear to me)
14:52:50 <slef> kmkale: I'm happy to admin following requests from people, but I'd rather not lead any task just now if anyone else wants to do it (I have some local elections in May and July).
14:53:20 <slef> paul_p: 2nd part of the KohaCon?
14:53:32 <paul_p> ie: do we speak of the 2nd part?
14:53:41 <paul_p> (sorry, i've a meeting in // ...)
14:53:42 <kmkale> slef: I will give you access.
14:53:43 <slef> paul_p: define "2nd part"?
14:54:01 <slef> hackfest?
14:54:03 <paul_p> slef, the hackfest/developer part
14:54:04 <paul_p> yep
14:54:21 <paul_p> somebody had suggested sessions on how to setup dev installs and getting started on koha dev
14:54:21 <paul_p> or was it for the hackfest?
14:54:31 <paul_p> => kmkale few mn ago
14:54:45 <slef> paul_p: not specifically AIUI we're talking about general organisation
14:55:25 <kmkale> everyone please go through the site and let me know any text changes etc.
14:55:54 <kmkale> anyone wants rights on conf management in OCS let me know
14:56:31 <kmkale> paul_p: move on to hackfest?
14:57:37 <paul_p> kmkale, you decide, if you think you've informations you need/want for the 1st part ;-)
14:57:50 <mtj> kmkale: i now have an ocs account , will do…
14:58:23 <kmkale> to summarize 1st part lets send out call for papers, open registrations, review papers as they come in, after a while start thinking about organizing sessions
14:59:20 <kmkale> get help in travel guides
14:59:31 <kmkale> from different parts of the world
15:00:01 <kmkale> decide on keynote themes
15:00:09 <kmkale> did i miss out anything?
15:00:46 <kmkale> next meeting I will report progress from our sub comitees
15:00:59 <kmkale> one more thing how about a call for sponsors?
15:01:08 <slef> kmkale++
15:01:19 <slef> can ocs help with that?
15:02:14 <kmkale> ocshttp://kohacon11.vpmthane.org/ocs/index.php/k/k11/about/organizingTeam
15:02:21 <kmkale> has a section on sponsors
15:02:35 <kmkale> & anather on sources of support
15:02:40 <slef> could I add Registration Type: Prospective-Sponsor, perhaps?
15:02:43 <kmkale> but thats just text
15:02:57 <kmkale> actual work has to be done by us :)
15:03:03 <paul_p> kmkale, you can also ask or suggest about sociolizing time (what to do after each day ?)
15:03:12 <kmkale> slef: good idea
15:04:16 <kmkale> paul_p: good idea. so i can come up with a list of places to visit, shopping, get together, dinner etc etc
15:04:44 <slef> kmkale: ok, I will add that when I have ocs admin.
15:04:52 <kmkale> slef:++
15:05:27 <paul_p> kmkale, do you plan to organize something ? in Texas, there was a baseball match, in NZ a maori experience,...
15:05:51 <kmkale> planning on a day trip to Mumbai
15:06:01 <paul_p> (everybody pays for this event, but you organize)
15:06:05 <paul_p> kmkale, great !
15:06:32 <slef> Sorry but I am going to have to leave in about 5min
15:06:50 <kmkale> paul_p: hackfest discussion now?
15:06:59 <mtj> mumbai trip sounds great
15:07:02 <paul_p> kmkale, if you want.
15:08:23 <kmkale> take it away paul_p
15:08:24 <paul_p> (I repeat what I already have said) my strong opinion is that we must have 2 different parts: one to help ppl learning how to hack, and one for hacking
15:08:36 <kmkale> length pf hackfest?
15:08:37 <paul_p> both are equally important.
15:08:55 <kmkale> learn to hack++
15:08:57 <paul_p> kmkale, as long as possible 3days not enough according to me
15:09:21 <kmkale> we can organize let hackers say how long they want
15:09:28 <paul_p> 2 days learning to hack, then 3 days hack would be perfect !
15:09:54 <kmkale> paul_p: including weekends or excluding
15:09:56 <kmkale> ?
15:10:36 <paul_p> excluding
15:10:44 <paul_p> ++ to have some rest during the we
15:10:59 <kmkale> ok so 31st oct is monday
15:11:03 <paul_p> experimented in NZ = everybody was toooooo tired on hackfect day 3 !
15:11:06 <kmkale> so mon, tue, wed conference proper
15:11:16 <paul_p> in France, wk 1 = conf, then we, then wk2 = hackers
15:11:17 <kmkale> thursday mumbai trip
15:11:46 <kmkale> fri, sat learn to hack
15:11:50 <kmkale> sun rest
15:12:01 <kmkale> mon, tue, wed hack
15:12:02 <kmkale> ??
15:12:08 <paul_p> sounds really good !
15:12:13 <kmkale> in all 10 days
15:13:19 <kmkale> can hackfest stuff be done in a classroom of say 30 ppl?
15:14:04 <mtj> yeah, i think so
15:14:05 <paul_p> kmkale, I feel yes
15:14:13 <kmkale> cool then we have many
15:14:24 <paul_p> but if you get 18k attendees, you may get 300 developers ;-)
15:14:46 <paul_p> in France we were 15, in Texas about 15, in NZ about 15 too !
15:15:01 <kmkale> hehe if that happens paul_p then biblibre better bring all its developers to teach parallel learn to hack sessions :)
15:16:13 <paul_p> lol
15:16:44 <kmkale> shall we toss around the hackfest discussion on thge lists so that we get more opinions? people really may not have 10 days
15:16:59 <paul_p> kmkale, if you pay the trip to all of us, then we could all come ;-)
15:17:02 <slef> I'm mobile so sorry for late/intermittent comments: remember that each extra day a travelling worker attends is probably an increased cost to their Koha buyers.
15:17:41 <kmkale> paul_p: if I could pay i would have attended kohacon in NZ ;)
15:17:42 <paul_p> i've the opposite opinion: once i'm here, I want to ROI my investment ;-)
15:18:06 <mtj> yeah, i agree with paul :)
15:18:24 <kmkale> ya mtj is coming eraly for Diwali too :)
15:18:39 <slef> so do I, but I don't see much return for us in past hackfests
15:19:16 <slef> kohacon more return, hackfest less
15:19:27 <kmkale> ok how do we go about finilizing hackfest duration and format? mailing list? vote?
15:19:38 <mtj> aww, the friendship and experience is nice, for hackfests
15:20:41 <slef> mtj: we have lots of friendship and experience within the co-op :)
15:20:42 <mtj> perhaps we discuss on the mailing lists for the next week?
15:20:52 <mtj> or do we just vote now?
15:21:02 <kmkale> mailing lists is better imho
15:21:05 <slef> final decision or decision method is up to kmkale IMO
15:21:21 <paul_p> mailing list++
15:21:48 <kmkale> slef: about hackfest its really upto developers
15:21:59 <kmkale> i don't want to be sitting there alone ;)
15:22:13 <mtj> mailling list++
15:22:29 <slef> @karma list
15:22:29 <huginn> slef: Karma for "list" has been increased 3 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 2.
15:22:29 <kmkale> so paul_p will you send a mail to the list about hackfest duration format proposal?
15:22:39 <slef> @karma mailing list
15:22:39 <huginn> slef: mailing list has neutral karma.
15:23:01 <paul_p> kmkale, if you want, or you can do it yourself if you prefer. I let you choose (it's your KohaCon ;) )
15:23:21 <kmkale> paul_p please do it if you can
15:23:30 <paul_p> ok, will do
15:23:36 <kmkale> thanks paul_p++
15:23:41 <kmkale> also how do we go about getting some sponsors?
15:24:11 <mtj> mailing-list again, i think....
15:24:44 <slef> once there's a sponsor registration type, let's call for sponsors on list, web and newsletter?
15:25:09 <kmkale> slef yes good idea
15:25:38 <kmkale> #action kmkale to give slef and gmcharlt admin rights on OCS
15:25:59 <kmkale> #action paul_p to send out hackfest discussion mail
15:26:27 <kmkale> anyone else has anything to discuss? any question to ask maybe?
15:26:37 <gmcharlt> #action gmcharlt to draft the call for presentatins
15:27:16 <kmkale> #action slef to create sponsor registration type post getting admin rights
15:27:22 <kmkale> time and date for next volunteers meeting?
15:28:14 <mtj> 2 or 4 weeks away? or too soon?
15:28:34 <kmkale> how about monthly meeting? rotated 8hrs?
15:29:00 <mtj> yeah, perfect
15:29:12 <kmkale> i had a couple of regrets due to the time of meeting today
15:29:12 <paul_p> ++ for me too
15:30:09 <kmkale> 5th april?
15:30:43 <kmkale> or 8th
15:31:04 <paul_p> 8th sound OK to me
15:31:43 <kmkale> time?
15:31:43 <wahanui1> i heard time was a scary thing
15:31:50 <kmkale> huh
15:32:17 <kmkale> do we try to get the time as per most of volunteers convinience or go by the 8 hr thing?
15:33:02 <slef> make sure it's sane for you, then rotate or not as you wish IMO
15:33:10 <gmcharlt> kmkale: it's up to you
15:33:16 <mtj> 8 hr thing ++
15:35:26 <kmkale> 6.00 uts on 8th april then?
15:35:32 <kmkale> *UTC
15:35:51 <paul_p> kmkale, OK for me
15:36:08 <kmkale> paul_p: I was afraid you would say too early ;)
15:36:55 <kmkale> agreed? 8th april 6.00UTC ??
15:37:26 <mtj> agreed
15:37:44 <paul_p> kmkale, will be 8AM for me (summer time), so OK
15:37:51 <gmcharlt> agreed
15:38:29 <kmkale> #action next irc meeting of Kohacon11 volunteers on 8th April 2011 at 6.00UTC
15:38:36 <kmkale> end meeting?
15:38:58 <kmkale> be happy to answer any queries about Thane, India, VPM etc
15:39:37 <paul_p> ok for end meeting
15:39:54 <kmkale> #endmeeting