18:01:17 #startmeeting 18:01:17 if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me 18:01:17 Meeting started Wed Apr 18 18:01:17 2012 UTC. The chair is slef. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:17 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:01:46 #info This is a meeting about kohacon12 planning. Thanks to all who are taking part. 18:01:50 #topic Introductions 18:01:51 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 18:02:06 please introduce yourselves, starting with #info like wahanui did 18:02:22 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 18:02:33 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 18:02:38 #info MJ Ray, software.coop, southern England 18:02:55 Something like this: -moz-box-shadow: -5px 5px 3px rgba(90,90,90,0.5); -webkit-box-shadow: -5px 5px 3px rgba(90,90,90,0.5); box-shadow: -5px 5px 3px rgba(90,90,90,0.5); 18:03:04 #info Jane Wagner, Liblime/PTFS 18:03:50 That's a drop shadow, 5 pixel offset, 3 pixel blur semi-opaque to show underlying Koha logo. 18:04:08 guess jcamins_away won't be with us then 18:04:13 datadoctor: your comments will show up in the meeting minutes :) perhaps add to the bug or wiki page? 18:04:22 I'm having some problems with internet access. 18:04:30 oops jumped back in without reading...will put to bug report 18:04:31 slef: no, sorry. Have to run to an in-person meeting. 18:04:48 Introducing Fred Pierre as datadoctor 18:04:57 Stow, Ohio, USA 18:05:11 #info Fred Pierre, Stow, Ohio USA 18:05:19 can anyone remind me what headings we need to discuss? Sorry for being so disrupted. 18:05:32 I think it's roadmap, scheduling and sponsorship 18:05:49 we can check the last minutes 18:06:00 #info minutes from last meeting http://meetings.koha-community.org/2012/koha.2012-04-11-18.00.html 18:06:07 except I can't because my internet access is dead :-/ 18:06:19 ok, I will go through them :) 18:06:34 slef: did you post a list of paper details for scheduling somewhere? :) 18:06:41 slef: How can you be here if your internet access is dead? 18:06:48 magic 18:07:03 thd: that's what I don't understand! 18:07:30 oh wow... load on my outbound proxy is 4.52 18:07:36 slef: Do you mean that you have a DNS problem? 18:08:02 slef: perhaps start with ashort update? 18:08:05 thd: I think I have an everything-that-is-not-already connected problem. 18:08:16 slef: sponsoring, how many registered, number of papers 18:09:03 I confess I am curious how many people have registered now 18:09:18 ok 18:09:24 #topic Roadmap to KohaCon12 18:10:09 #info registrations were at 32 on Monday and I have not touched the registration queue since. I will do as soon as my internet access is back up. 18:10:44 sponsoring info is given on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Volunteers 18:10:53 maybe someone can get the numbers from there 18:11:02 again, that is Monday's situation 18:11:58 Vague basic event cost estimate: about £3000 18:12:05 Committed by 10 April: £960 18:12:13 Current forecast: £4478.41 18:12:30 Arrived by 12 April: £628.41 18:12:33 that about right? 18:12:51 that was the situation on Monday I think 18:13:02 Current forecast sponsorship income I think 18:13:33 #info Papers - only 3 new papers this week, but deadline is Friday so we expect a surge. List to be posted once I'm back online 18:13:42 slef: Was �4478.41 the forecast cost or forecast sponsorship? 18:13:52 thd: forecase sponsorship 18:14:00 forecast 18:14:47 cait - I think there were 2 new hackfest papers since last meeting too? I'm not tracking those since I've been forwarding them (but I am keeping copies) 18:14:50 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Volunteers for budget headings 18:15:06 slef: rangi mentioned one about solr and one from robin 18:15:15 slef: I was going to ask you to send me the details for those 18:15:22 cait: sorry. Didn't you get them? 18:15:28 those 2 not 18:15:31 Thought I forwarded the one from robin 18:15:32 I have 4 so far 18:15:36 ok when I paste a list on paste? 18:15:40 and the solr one is a conference paper 18:15:43 ah, you can't reach thet 18:15:54 yes, he said he thinks it woudl perhaps be more suitable for hackfest 18:16:11 the presenter is only attending conference 18:16:26 so we should try to schedule that one against a break 18:16:41 ok 18:16:44 shall we move the topic to scheduling? 18:16:48 so I know about 5 then 18:16:55 but only have abstracts for 4 18:17:10 ok 18:17:50 conference or hackfest? 18:18:07 I think conference after deadline and when list of accepted talkswas posted? 18:19:15 either 18:19:18 #topic scheduling 18:20:42 want me to start with hackfest? 18:20:58 yes please 18:21:01 ok 18:21:08 i was thinking 18:21:27 starting at 9, presentations at 9:30 when everyone is there, having presentations in the morning 18:21:40 and hacking, discussing, working in groups in the afternoon 18:21:46 90 minute lunch break 18:21:59 breaks between presentations too? 18:22:16 not sure how long in the afternoon - how long can we stay there? 18:22:33 I think until 5. Let me see if our booking papers say. 18:22:44 ok 18:22:53 I'm back online :) 18:22:56 yay :) 18:22:59 cait: My memory of previous conferences is that it took an hour after starting on hackfest days for everyone to appear. 18:23:19 thd: I was wondering that and pondered presentations at 10 18:23:24 thd: i think we need to do at least 2 presentations each day 18:23:29 the length varies 18:23:38 but woud perhaps be good to group together some topics 18:23:50 #info we have booked the venue 0900-1800 18:23:56 not sure when we go for lunch - 12 till 13:30? later, earlier? 18:24:19 12:30-2 would make it nearer halfway 18:24:26 yep 18:24:31 The conferences which I am remembering had relatively little formalism about the hackfest days in terms of presentations. 18:24:44 #idea lunch break 12:30 - 2, 90 minutes 18:25:03 thd: we got papers, so I think we should schedule those 18:25:10 but I was thinking aobu tkeeping the afternoons open 18:25:16 for whatever people want to discuss or work on 18:25:27 The more formal the arrangement of the hackfest is in terms of presentations the more likely people may be to show up early. 18:25:43 ah 18:25:57 thd: so you think half an hour would be ok, if people knew that a presentation was about to start at a given time? 18:26:22 I think having formal presentation times morning and afternoon is a good idea and makes people more lightspeed to show up early 18:26:23 slef: please tell me if you disagree with something I suggest :) 18:26:26 likely not lightspeed 18:26:32 damn you autocomplete 18:26:33 I think that later arrivals during hackfest days were often due to people hacking half the night or falling ill from hacking all night during conference days. 18:27:07 thd: makes sense 18:27:24 maybe we need to be careful to try to drag people out to dinner/bars in the evening? 18:27:28 cait: So yes, I think that if you schedule a presentation at a time people will be liable to appear on time if they are interested. 18:27:29 slef: my idea was that we could perhaps have some summary meeting in the afternoon 18:27:32 we did that in marseille 18:27:42 so groups working on something could present what they did 18:27:53 cait: at the beginning or end of the afternoon? 18:28:02 as a follow up to ideas sparked from presentations and other more informal group work 18:28:23 slef: not sure, we did it at the end, but some people had run out by then, so perhaps something not too late in the afternoon 18:28:28 if you like the idea 18:28:54 I like the idea, especially if it worked in Marseille 18:29:01 :) 18:29:04 proven ideas are good 18:29:15 I think it did 18:29:21 Definitely having separate groups report to everyone is important. 18:29:27 why did people run out early, do you know? 18:29:32 getting home :) 18:29:37 we sometimes forgot to do the meeting 18:29:40 so I would set a time for it 18:29:45 oh right... home faraway home? 18:29:48 or hotels? 18:30:11 lots of biblibre developers in marseille too, so a mix of all 18:30:24 but not that important I think - we should set a time and try to do it then I think 18:30:29 perhaps 4? 18:30:37 4:00 18:31:16 maybe ask at start of day when people think they will finish? 18:31:21 and set the time that way 18:31:34 but expect 4 if we don't see different? 18:31:35 we could also do a short something in the morning, and one before end 18:31:47 yeah, I will put a note on the to be created wiki page 18:32:00 #link empty outline posted at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Schedule 18:32:09 #idea have groups reporting about what they have been working on in the afternoon/morning - time to be discussed 18:32:38 another idea from dpavlin for the hackfest was to have kind of a gbsd 18:32:46 a group working on fixing old long standing bugs 18:33:19 yes that would be a good session I think 18:33:46 #idea hackfest bugsquash, a group working on fixing old long standing bugs 18:33:56 heh, was still typing on my #info :) 18:34:11 my typing is scary 18:34:16 even scarier since I got autocomplete 18:34:28 ok, now for the action items 18:34:46 do you want me to put the hackfest notes on the schedule page? 18:34:55 ah ok, there is a heading already 18:35:06 i will put a lit of the papers 18:35:08 just a suggestion 18:35:11 and a timetable 18:35:22 :) autocomplete is a nice idea which very scary in most actual implementations. 18:35:35 I think I'm going to put a table of paper / presenter / time, then a timetable 18:35:36 with a suggestion for scheduling, if that's ok? 18:35:55 that'd be brilliant - do with it as you will 18:35:58 what about a list of things we might need? 18:36:20 projector, power strips (not sure the dining room is suited for a hackfest), ...? 18:36:55 #action cait to put a list of hackfest talks and a timetable on the wiki 18:36:58 This is sort of venue things. 18:37:01 slef: Do you have all the recording equipment which you might need to record the hackfest? 18:37:04 really could do with mle here 18:37:12 ... even if only audio? 18:37:25 slef: perhaps we can just start a list somewhere - was only not sure where to put it 18:37:36 cait: put it on the volunteers page I think 18:37:39 ... at least for the presentations? 18:37:51 cait: I'm using that as a page for volunteers, rather than a page about volunteers. 18:38:16 thd: I have enough equipment to do some sort of recordings, but I think we have better equipment available. 18:38:42 #action cait to start notes about hackfest on the volunteers page (list of things we need, etc.) 18:38:45 cait: I have a projector here, about 2 metres from me now. 18:39:18 * wizzyrea assumes gaetan_b has gone home for the day 18:39:27 ok, i think I have enough action items for now :) moving on to friday excursions? 18:39:41 wizzyrea: i hope so - it's 8:40 pm 18:39:44 #topic The Friday Off - Possible Excursions 18:39:45 Last week I suggested a separate microphone for questions put to the presenter. Presenters should be encouraged to repeat the question in the absence of a questioners' microphone. 18:39:48 oh sorry meeting 18:40:07 thd: I think probably more needed for the conf, but i agre that a microphone is nice 18:40:22 #info thanks to cait and mle for posting about fish 18:40:30 :) 18:40:41 has anyone been hooked, do we know? 18:40:58 slef: I don't know - I tested the form and mle told me he got my mail 18:41:03 #link http://koha-community.org/kohacon12-fishing-trip/ 18:41:14 so it seems to work, have not heard back from him if he got more 18:41:24 cait: do you know what bit before the @ it is going to? 18:41:37 his email address 18:41:46 cait: The issue I was identifying is not for the audience present but for a recording which can be understood. 18:41:49 he told me to use that 18:42:15 slef: checking 18:42:45 cait: ok, no worries, I'll ask him when I see him. Could have used kohacon12 at software.coop so we could all process them. 18:43:16 (he's not been in much this week - as planned) 18:43:52 slef: it's mle before the @ 18:44:05 cait: thanks. 18:44:18 #action slef to ask mle how many fishermen are interested 18:44:40 has it been posted to the koha@... mailing list? Should I circulate it to registered people? 18:44:43 slef: perhaps we should send a note to the koha mailing list about it too 18:44:52 I think not everyone might be checking the website regularly 18:44:52 cait: snap! 18:45:17 slef: I don't think it has - to answer your question :) 18:46:12 can you? 18:46:14 ok, could you, thd, datadoctor or jwagner mail it out? 18:46:32 I will if needed, but I think I'm behind with papers and sponsorship admin. 18:46:45 oh 18:46:50 we fogot to set a deadline 18:47:04 I think 30 April was discussed in meeting 18:47:17 perhaps I should add that? 18:47:24 slef: Are you asking me or others to send a note about fishing? 18:47:27 Sorry, mail what out -- reminder about the fishing trip? 18:47:30 cait: yes please! 18:47:42 thd: yes, jwagner: yes :) 18:48:02 #action cait add deadline april 30th to post about fishing trip 18:48:13 I can do it if no one else is going to 18:48:34 #action cait to tell jwagner once post updated, jwagner to mail it out 18:49:10 ok? thanks both 18:49:17 sure 18:49:22 jwagner: I nominate you, especially if you have any interest in fishing. 18:49:28 Just a mention of the trip & a pointer to the web site? 18:49:40 I have no interest in fishing, but I'd like the boat trip :-) 18:49:45 that ok as text? UPDATE: Please register until April 30th latest so arrangements can be made. 18:49:58 jwagner: yes. As much or as little as you want of the post, plus a link. 18:49:58 proof reading please 18:50:13 cait: register before... I think 18:50:29 ok 18:50:35 * thd would be more interested in some other excursion if I could attend. 18:50:38 UPDATE: Please register before 30th April at the latest so arrangements can be made. 18:50:44 is how I'd word it 18:50:59 done 18:51:02 because Europeans write day month year don't we? ;) 18:51:19 But should we encourage the practice :-) 18:51:22 well except the Hungarians I think 18:51:30 slef: i always get confused about that in English :) 18:52:05 anyyyyway 18:52:19 shall we move on? I think the other Friday excursions can still wait 18:52:34 slef: All sensible people put the day first unless using ISO numerically sorted notation. Putting the day between the month and the year has no logical sense. 18:52:41 jwagner: telling you now that it#s done and you can mail out ;) 18:53:07 #topic Sponsorship 18:53:11 OK, will send message 18:54:31 We have had one request for attendee sponsorship from someone whose university has refused to fund their travel. At the moment, it looks like it might be financially possible, but how do we feel in principle about the idea? 18:55:17 I think if we do it 18:55:36 we should give others a chance too 18:55:43 slef, I'd be against doing it just because someone asked. But I can see a future in having a "scholarship" for a person to attend, with qualifications & how to decide spelled out 18:55:52 like having a set amount and asking people to write up a little summary 18:55:54 slef: I think that there should be a scholarship program for people who could not fund their own way. 18:56:13 ok, seems we all agree :) 18:56:50 OK, it sounds like this is basically "not this year" but if we can give money to kohacon13 we should encourage it to run a scholarship programme? 18:56:57 Have I understood this right? 18:57:33 i think we could do this year too - if someone was willing to put time into that now :( 18:57:48 I mean writing up something and sorting out money etc. 18:57:49 slef: If you have some excess funds from sponsorship why not make those available to people who might not be able to attend otherwise? 18:58:07 Yeah I don't think we can run a full scholarship application system in time with the available volunteers. 18:58:55 Even an ad hoc system would be better than absolutely refusing the one person who asked. 18:59:33 thd: we do not have excess funds yet. We forecast an excess. 18:59:58 hm difficult 19:00:08 slef: Yes, I was just about to identify that as the problem. 19:00:51 and I fear that by the time we do have a definite excess, travel fares will be prohibitively expensive 19:01:20 Have previous kohacon sponsored any attendees? 19:01:35 If excess funds appear by some cutoff date then they might be appropriated to help some people attend, otherwise, I would suggest rolling them over to KohaCon 2013. 19:01:40 I don't know about any - but I haven't been involed in organisation before 19:01:48 Should I suggest people approach sponsors directly? 19:01:51 i don't know if olugbenga (no idea how to spell it) was sponsored 19:01:53 potential sponsors 19:02:10 his was a pretty special case though, he was coming from nigeria and it was going to be crazy expensive 19:02:11 gbenga works for a Koha vendor I think 19:02:31 though, he didn't get a visa and thusly could not come anyway :( 19:02:44 an australian transit visa, of all things. 19:02:49 wizzyrea: are you talking... yes, kohacon10 19:02:52 I remember that 19:02:57 right, 10 19:03:33 we could ask rangi later 19:03:34 The rich world has the 'unfair' advantage of having the lowest fairs between other rich world locations. 19:03:53 either way I'm not sure it's much of a precedent. 19:04:18 ok well I'll try to get more idea of needed decision dates from this requestor and if there's time to run some sort of maybe-scholarship-system, set that up 19:04:34 sp cam we ahree wotj th 19:04:39 grr 19:04:46 so can we agree? 19:04:57 so can we agree with thd's line "If excess funds appear by some cutoff date then they might be appropriated to help some people attend, otherwise, I would suggest rolling them over to KohaCon 2013"? 19:05:20 +1 19:05:24 +1 19:05:31 +1 19:06:10 * jwagner has sent listserv message about fishing trip, cross that one off the list 19:06:11 #agreed "If excess funds appear by some cutoff date then they might be appropriated to help some people attend, otherwise, I would suggest rolling them over to KohaCon 2013" 19:06:35 #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil 19:06:39 hello 19:06:44 anything else before next meeting? 19:06:57 hello fredericd and thanks for your sponsorship 19:07:17 fredericd++ :) 19:07:28 fredericd: will you attend? :) 19:07:37 slef: nothing from me 19:07:42 Is there something planned in the hackfest about performances? 19:07:53 fredericd: there is a talk at the hackfest 19:08:04 There are endless discussion on the subject and not that much action! 19:08:09 #topic next meeting 19:08:15 i will put a list of talks for the hackfest in the wiki later today or tomorrow latest 19:08:28 cait++ 19:08:30 fredericd: there is also some action - like the work on plack :) 19:08:39 Yes, I will attend the hackfest 19:08:48 lots of work done at the hackfest in marseille - dpavlin_away can tell you all about it 19:09:04 #info next meeting Wednesday 25 April 18:00 UTC, 19:00 BST, 20:00 MESZ, 14:00 US Eastern 19:09:11 thanks all for taking part 19:09:14 #endmeeting