17:59:26 #startmeeting 17:59:26 Meeting started Wed Sep 5 17:59:26 2012 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:26 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:27 if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me 17:59:32 #topic Introductions 17:59:32 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 17:59:44 welcome to today's Koha IRC meeting 17:59:52 please introduce yourself with #info at the beginning of the line 17:59:59 #info MJ Ray, software.coop, Setchey, Norfolk, England 18:00:01 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany 18:00:02 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 18:00:06 #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS 18:00:09 #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 18:00:12 #info Elliott Davis, ByWater Solutions, Houston Texas 18:00:17 #info Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe Ltd 18:00:20 #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, LLC 18:00:30 #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater 18:00:37 #info Walter Sullvan 18:00:38 #info Marc Véron, marc veron ag (www.veron.ch), Allschwil, Switzerland, member of Koha Support Schweiz 18:01:03 hi paul_p and Viktor - we just started introductions 18:01:12 #info Marc Balmer, Koha Support Schweiz, www.koha-support.ch 18:01:27 #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre, France, current Koha Release Manager 18:01:39 #info Chris C, Catalyst IT, 3.8.x rmmaint - only here until the kids wake up 18:01:40 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_5_September_2012#Agenda 18:01:42 Viktor Sarge, Regional development council of the Halland Region - Sweden. 18:01:48 #info Albert Oller, Bywater, Worcester, MA 18:02:07 thx slef 18:02:16 #info Kari Blomster, Hailuoto, Finland. 18:02:19 Viktor - if you put a #info in front, the meeting logs will get it right :) 18:02:40 in case anyone wonders - Brooke asked me to take over for today :) 18:02:45 #info Melia Meggs, ByWater Solutions, California 18:02:45 cait - Oh, sorry. Thanks! 18:03:03 ok, going to move on 18:03:08 #info Viktor Sarge, Regional development council of the Halland region, Sweden. 18:03:11 #topic Announcements 18:03:12 #info Arslan Farooq, Pakistan 18:03:30 do we have announcements to make? 18:03:31 #info Olugbenga Adara, Projektlink Konsult, Nigeria 18:03:40 #info Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 18:04:11 ok, I take there are no announcements? so we canmove on to the next topic 18:04:19 #topic Update on Roadmap to 3.6 18:04:23 word goes to jcamins 18:04:32 #info 3.6.9 is on schedule 18:04:43 #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 18:05:08 I was planning on announcing 3.6.x's EOL for October 22, but I've been told that we may have a volunteer to take over as RMaint, which would be good. 18:05:12 And that's that. 18:05:17 #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT 18:05:34 jcamins: can you disclose whom we have to encourage? 18:05:45 :) 18:05:56 probably not 18:06:04 any questions to jcamins about 3.6.x? 18:06:07 cait: not yet. I just found out yesterday that this person might consider it. 18:06:16 #info D Ruth Bavousett, ByWater 18:06:58 ok, if noone has questions, we canmove to the next topic 18:07:11 #topic Update on Roadmap to 3.8 18:07:17 about 3.6, should we ask on the ML how many ppl are still running it ? 18:07:18 rangi: still here? 18:07:18 somebody said here was where I work 18:07:23 yep 18:07:38 paul_p: why? Do you care? 18:07:41 so we could see if it's worth the involvement for the RMaint 18:07:54 3.8.5 is on schedule, i really want bug 8251 and bug 8246 18:07:56 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8251 critical, P1 - high, ---, colin.campbell, Signed Off , Patrons are systematically debarred at checkin 18:07:57 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8246 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , can't delete bibs in big batch delete 18:08:05 #info 3.8.5 on schedule 18:08:09 jcamins = if no one is using it, maybe the candidate RMaint will reconsider applying ? 18:08:32 hmm not 8246 the one that is linked to 8251 :) 18:08:32 That's his/her decision, I think. 18:08:39 do we have download stats? 18:08:42 in, but they need to pass qa and be pushed to master 18:09:02 rangi: so we need qa now? or do we still need patches too? 18:09:09 qa 18:09:10 rambutan = still no patch on 8246 ? 18:09:22 not 8246 18:09:35 rangi: maybe add the correct bug numbers as #info? I got confused 18:09:43 ? 18:09:53 wrong autocomplete I think :) 18:09:59 yep 18:10:16 oops... 2 "ra-something" ;-) 18:10:17 paul_p: I think if someone offers to be rmaint he/she probably has an interest in the version to continue 18:10:36 #info bug 8251 and bug 8486 are intertwined and i want them fixed for 3.8.5 18:10:37 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8486 blocker, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , Critical error in Koha::Calendar::days_between calculation 18:10:44 rangi: thx 18:10:47 cait = probably, just suggesting asking on the ML. It's not hard to do and can give us usefull informations ! 18:10:48 ok 18:11:10 somethng else for 3.8.x? 18:11:25 i think it would give information, probably not useful :) 18:11:30 nope thats it 18:11:38 ok 18:11:43 so next topic 18:11:57 #topic Update on Roadmap to 3.10 18:12:05 my turn then ;-) 18:12:06 paul_p has the word 18:12:39 well, I had 80 patches to push when I came back from holiday. Most of them are pushed now 18:12:48 paul_p++ 18:12:49 paul_p++ 18:12:58 There are just a few patches related to authorities that I want to test more before pushing. 18:13:15 And some that are waiting for feedback i've asked 18:13:25 paul_p++ 18:13:36 paul_p++ 18:13:37 * jcamins runs off. 18:13:45 I have a question about feature freeze - is it still 22nd september? 18:13:47 The "signed off" queue is quite large also. I'll try to work on it next week 18:13:54 and how will you handle it? 18:14:10 cait = yep, I still plan FF for sept 22th 18:14:21 cait = can you explain your question ? 18:14:30 #info 3.12 feature freeze will be on 22nd September 18:14:39 I think in the past we had some confusion about what it means 18:14:43 3.10 18:14:46 cait = not 3.12, 3.10 ;-) 18:14:51 oh 18:15:00 heh no new features in 3.12 18:15:09 only bug fixes 18:15:21 #info um 3.10 feature freeze will be on 22nd September (last was typo) 18:15:43 won't you push any new featues, or is it the last day for sign off, or qa... 18:15:58 I think it would be good to make that very clear and maybe sent a mail on the mailing list 18:16:11 so people don't complain later 18:16:23 To insure the best stability, I won't push any patch that adds a feature that touches the core of Koha. 18:16:30 ok 18:16:39 so it has to be passed qa on that date? 18:17:06 yep. 18:17:37 #info so any new feature for 3.10 has to be passed qa on that date 18:17:56 sorry that statement still doesn't make sense to me - but I'm fine with it as is… Maybe next Kohacon someone can explain feature freeze to me 18:17:59 It means I'll will still add Enhancement, but only those that don't deal with the core of Koha. By core, I mean things like Koha.pm, Auth.pm, Circulation, ... 18:18:32 paul_p: so you distinguish between enh and new features? 18:18:33 I think this is sometimes called a light freeze, followed later by a deep freeze. 18:18:46 Maybe I should write a list of files that should not be modified after the FF 18:18:53 bag: i am also confused, that's why i am asking, and we shout write it down somewhere 18:18:53 okay, cait. 18:19:02 cait = nope, I distinguish between "core" and "non core". 18:19:11 * slef looks at wahanui 18:19:16 so when is the non-core freeze 18:19:17 even if you don't touch C4 you can break stuff badly 18:19:25 a quick mail to the list explaining the different dates and what they mean would be good, i think :-) 18:19:30 indeed 18:19:35 For example, the "batch biblio modification" is not core = there's no risk it break something. 18:19:37 like breaking the javascript in a template file, breaking the xslt, breaking a simpler perl file 18:19:45 i am not sure that can be dealt with a list of files 18:19:46 and even if you touch C4, you can fix problems. 18:19:53 #agreed paul_p to send a quick mail to the list explaining the different dates and what they mean 18:20:20 * slef goes to fiddle with the fish 18:20:30 I don't say I won't push anything on Circulation ! I mean I won't push any ENH that touches Circulation ! (for example) 18:20:52 * paul_p feel i'm a little bit unclear... 18:20:53 #info Mirko Tietgen, late 18:20:58 paul_p: hm I think a mail to the list would be great 18:21:02 will try to be more clear on koha-devel. 18:21:07 cool thx! 18:21:08 for a newbie. when and how do documentation patches get applied? to align with the expected things that pass QA. 18:21:09 paul_p++ 18:21:31 maybe I could list ENH that are concerned by the FF, and those that could pass after the FF ! 18:21:36 s/could/should/ 18:22:52 I also plan to write & publish my RM monthly newsletter tomorrow 18:23:00 yay! 18:23:11 Otherwise, things are going well. 18:23:16 :) sounds great!! 18:23:16 #info paul_p is going to publish the rm newsletter tomorrow 18:23:38 great 18:23:55 ok, do we need more discussion on 3.10/rlease cycle? 18:24:17 to finish with the 3.10 topic, I must say I'm very happy to imagine I've only 2.5 months to wait before not being RM anymore. It's an exhausting task, really ! 18:24:48 (which does not mean I'm happy to be. But 1 year is enough !) 18:24:56 you work so hard, explaining is tough, feel for you 18:24:57 :) 18:25:13 :) 18:25:16 ok, I would suggest moving on then 18:25:31 #topic KohaCon2013 18:25:32 (it's really a lot of responsibility for a single person) 18:25:33 * oleonard reassures potential future RMs that paul_p is exaggerating and that they'll love it 18:25:41 heh 18:25:43 paul_p: The exhausting parts of the task really need more delegation. 18:25:54 thd++ !!! 18:25:55 guess I am too fast as chair today -sorry all 18:26:17 Do we have anyone here who is helping plan KohaCon13? 18:26:19 even paul_p will miss it when he's no longer RM. he'll tell us for sure. 18:26:24 oleonard = you haven't seen the pm I've sent to jcamins_away when he applied ;-) I really tried to discourage him, to be sure he was really wanting the job :D 18:26:30 cait, you're doing fine -- it's a nice pace as far as I'm concerned :-) 18:26:47 cait++ 18:26:58 thx 18:26:59 no kohacon13 people? 18:27:00 @later tell Brooke cait did great at the meeting :) 18:27:00 Oak: The operation succeeded. 18:27:03 paul_p: The code base and contributions will inevitable grow to the point where no mere mortal can sanely undertake the task alone. 18:27:14 ok, if noone is here we could perhaps make a short note about the meeting that was 18:27:19 lets keep on topic please people :) 18:27:32 oh sorry 18:27:37 thd: I think maybe we can put the general discusson ore to the end? 18:27:40 i have 2 kids who are gonna climb all over me any minute now 18:27:44 I think I was at a kohacon13 meeting 18:27:51 yes you were 18:27:56 sorry, missed topic change. 18:27:57 cn you give a short summary? 18:27:59 how long ago was that? 18:28:27 #link http://meetings.koha-community.org/2012/koha.2012-08-22-15.00.html 18:28:32 ah nice 18:28:44 it was quick IRC 18:28:46 I think Nancy said another meting will be called once they got dates and prices for the places 18:29:05 cait you are correct - that's a decent summary 18:29:10 #info basically 3-1-3 pattern and they're getting bids from venues before fixing more details. More meetings to follow 18:29:23 ok 18:29:34 so warning - going to change the topic :) 18:29:46 wait 18:29:50 :) 18:29:55 :)) 18:30:02 slef: What is 3-1-3? 18:30:15 Three days conference, one day off, three days hackfest 18:30:22 3 days conference, 1 day social, 3 days hackfest 18:30:40 it seemed to work well for the last conferences 18:30:41 but I think it may change if one of the bids is brilliant and requires it to change 18:31:12 * oleonard proposes 3-1-14 18:31:25 * cait votes for that 18:31:26 * thd is now ready for topic change. Thanks. 18:31:29 * drojf proposed someone sponsoring me for that time 18:31:43 * druthb proposes founding KohaColony: a place where That's What We Do. 18:31:43 what is -1- good for? 18:31:52 it just means spending more money on hotel 18:31:53 Being social, sightseeing, etc. 18:32:00 getting to know each other and actually see something of the foreign place you are at? :) 18:32:16 that's nothing mbalmer would do :P 18:32:27 and sleeping in case you had lost sleep with all your all night coding. 18:32:30 I did not see the point of 1 until attending Edinburgh and missing out on the social by having to go home. 18:32:57 Yeah, well, the Edinburgh 1 wasn't as good as the Wellington/Levin 1. 18:33:13 ...it was raining... 18:33:14 i enjoyed riding the bus around edinburgh with my friends 18:33:15 We tried but nothing quite seemed to come together for that day. 18:33:16 The Mumbai 1 was quite fun, too. 18:33:19 even in the rain 18:33:22 ...so we could do some more ad hoc work on Koha 18:33:23 aw 18:33:43 mbalmer = Edinburgh KohaCon was different than others. On others, we had an organised event. Very interesting & important for socializing. 18:33:44 sp we should really do 1-7-1 18:33:45 rangi: don't forget the sea we almost saw :) 18:33:50 heh 18:33:56 mbalmer = that's an option ;-) 18:34:13 ok :) 18:34:14 but I would prefer 3-1-14 as oleonard suggested ;-) 18:34:17 3 - 1- 361 ? 18:34:18 -359 18:34:26 1-7-14? 18:34:27 -20 18:34:28 maybe i can do 3-1-14 if i fo koha camping 18:34:29 mveron++ 18:34:29 At Wellington/Levin KohaCon, there was a bus to Levin for a civic reception and a powhiri(spelling! and maybe the wrong word!) 18:34:32 but now we are going off topic - I am going to make you discuss that in miscellaneous 18:34:37 90-60-90 18:34:37 -60 18:34:46 even if it's fun 18:34:48 cait++ 18:34:51 topic change warning 18:35:00 #topic Roles for 3.12 18:35:10 * slef ducks and covers from the cait topicbombs 18:35:13 can someone #link the proposals please? 18:35:33 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.12 18:36:00 we still need translation manager, QA manager and chair 18:36:05 * jwagner nominates cait for meeting chair! 18:36:15 i already signed up for 2 roles 18:36:16 it hits my eye that there is no QA manager, which seems important 18:36:23 and there are some times that would be pretty hard for me to do 18:36:26 cait, it's called multi-tasking :-) 18:36:41 * druthb seconds jwagner's nomination of cait for meeting chair. 18:36:51 There is a proposal for rotating meeting chair. 18:37:00 lots of *Assistant* QA Managers, though 18:37:04 heh 18:37:07 gotta have people to rotate it too 18:37:10 me not, sunce cait does not want that role apparently, or am I wrong? 18:37:18 rangi++ 18:37:34 #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions 18:37:39 mbalmer: i would do it - but I think there is a word for people with too many roles 18:37:48 talented? 18:37:53 hehe 18:37:54 "manic?" 18:37:55 :-) 18:38:04 for talented... 18:38:18 * paul_p think he will just promize to dedicate half a day every week to signoff the 5 oldest patches in the "need signoff" queue. But I still hesitate to join as QA-A also 18:38:30 If you can stretch yourself very thin, that is a talent. 18:38:35 paul_p: that would still be a very good promise :) 18:38:52 and not easy, but would be brilliant 18:38:55 paul_p++ 18:38:59 if mveron is a bug wrangler, I can always try hard to introduce new bugs... 18:39:00 * druthb would like to help out cait with the TM role a bit; recent work on Arabic has sparked her interest. 18:39:01 ancient patch signoffer. cool role! 18:39:13 ah right 18:39:18 we are also missing a translation manager it seems 18:39:19 okay, cait. 18:39:27 I haven't heard from fredericd if he wants to continue 18:39:30 paul_p++ 18:39:31 and I am only offering to assist 18:39:39 the TM manager needs to run pootle 18:39:53 yep 18:39:54 cait = we also had another frenchy as TM-assistant, this round 18:40:03 * paul_p don't remember his name... 18:40:08 Samuel ? 18:40:15 i bet pootle runs fine from a raspberry pi inside the bsz headquaters 18:40:16 cait, yep, Samuel, thx 18:40:31 drojf: heh 18:40:35 ok 18:40:38 what can we note down? 18:40:41 Starting build #817 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #773 2 mo 3 days ago) 18:40:55 # idea: rotate meeting chairs 18:40:56 i propose someone sends another mail to the lists 18:40:57 and not me 18:41:00 #info idea: rotate meeting chairs 18:41:17 ok, who can we volunteer for that 18:41:18 noting the areas we are missing volunteers 18:41:20 not me 18:41:25 when is voting for the roles supposed to happen? or did i just miss that? 18:41:31 we have to decide about that today 18:41:39 and it should happen well before 3.10 release 18:41:50 drojf: can you send a mail? with the date and missing roles? :) 18:41:51 well before… is next time?! 18:41:52 next month meeting 18:42:13 we should make that the voting day maybe 18:42:20 I agree 18:42:29 +1 18:42:30 drojf: persuaded? 18:42:32 +1 18:42:44 +1 18:42:47 +1 18:42:50 +1 18:42:56 And if we don't have volunteers for each role we take who we can get later? 18:43:00 cait: ok i'll send an email if it has not to be tonight 18:43:01 yep 18:43:02 +1 18:43:05 #action someone (maybe drojf) is going to send a reminder to the list with missing roles and the voting date 18:43:10 excellent 18:43:11 ok 18:43:30 ok, so we are voting on making the next meeting a voting meeting only? 18:43:38 i think so 18:43:56 +1 18:43:59 +1 18:44:04 +1 18:44:06 ok, please vote if that's ok for you or not, and I am going to check the time for next meeting 18:44:14 +1 for me also 18:44:23 +1 18:44:26 ok 18:44:29 +1 18:44:32 +1 18:44:35 +1 18:44:38 +1 18:44:39 +1 18:44:40 +1 18:44:45 +1 18:44:50 +1 18:44:53 +1 18:45:16 +1 18:45:48 #agreed next IRC meeting will be voting on roles for 3.12 only 18:45:53 ok 18:46:12 pls i realy need 2 learn about koha 18:46:17 um... 18:46:19 as we are on 18 now and have had 2 before, I think the time fo the next meeting is 10 UTC+0 18:46:20 am a novice 18:46:30 "only" as in that will be the only business at that meeting? 18:46:41 ah, that was my question, sorry 18:46:44 pkin, we are in a general meeting 18:46:48 +1 18:46:51 pikin, we are in a meeting, please wait until it is finished 18:46:52 maybe top priority? but it might get long 18:47:02 pikin, give it about half an hour and ask again 18:47:07 pikin: can you wait a few minutes and someone will help you? If not, I'll open a direct chat. 18:47:21 maybe better to have another meeting short after to keep it a bit shorter? or only urgent topics? 18:47:33 yes it is 10 UTC cait 18:47:55 10/10 at 10? 18:48:01 easy 18:48:04 sounds good to me 18:48:05 lets do that 18:48:08 i like it 18:48:11 someone wants to veto? 18:48:16 nope 18:48:19 k 18:48:22 lets have a vote on 10/10 10 UTC 18:48:27 please 18:48:45 +1 18:48:46 +1 18:48:47 +1 18:48:49 +1 18:48:50 +1 18:48:51 +1 18:48:51 +1 18:48:56 +10 18:48:57 +1 18:48:58 +1 18:48:58 +1 18:49:02 +! 18:49:05 +1 18:49:29 +1 18:49:32 +1 18:49:47 #agreed next IRC meeting will be on 10th october at 10 UTC+0 18:49:49 ok 18:49:56 now for only or not - magnuse - should we change that? 18:50:05 what? 18:50:18 if it will be only a vote meeting or other topics too 18:51:10 i thought that was what we voted for? 18:51:31 magnuse had a question about it, only making sure it's ok 18:51:41 < cait> ok, please vote if that's ok for you or not, and I am going to check the time for next meeting 18:51:52 we'll be part way through the freeze won't we? So an update would be good 18:52:01 yeah but not during that meeting 18:52:10 it will be long enough anyway 18:52:11 k 18:52:14 * oleonard thought we were voting on whether the senior lounge should have a foosball table 18:52:19 am confused 18:52:23 ok, i was unsure if i was understanding correctly 18:53:00 I think we can slip a short update in , but probably will have lots of discussion about proposals and votes 18:53:01 but if i was the only one wondering i'll keep schtumm 18:53:18 * slef thought we were voting on next meeting making the decision, not on voting being the only topic. *shrug* Up to the rest of you. 18:53:19 ok, next on the list of topics is... 18:54:04 so everybody voted for something else? it's nice that we agreed for something :) 18:54:12 agreed on 18:54:25 slef: At the end of the voting we could vote on including other business :) 18:54:32 ok, speak up if you disagree with "only" - if not I am moving on :) 18:54:37 * rangi has to go 18:54:48 feel free to edit: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_10_October_2012 :-) 18:55:09 ok, next topic 18:55:19 I think that voting had at least been understood to be the primary purpose of the next meeting. 18:55:36 wait one moment please cait. 18:56:13 and that is why ppl dont want to be chair :) 18:56:20 you cant tell the chair to wait one minute 18:56:23 * rangi is really gone now 18:56:29 Sorry 18:56:42 what are we waiting for? 18:56:52 no idea 18:56:54 I think it is a problem to absolutely exclude all other business 18:57:13 I don't think we have to be as strict, but we should strictly deal with voting first 18:57:28