15:10:35 #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 15:10:35 Meeting started Wed Jun 4 15:10:35 2014 UTC. The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:10:35 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 15:10:35 The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting' 15:10:37 or there's the in depth manual at: http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html 15:10:43 tcohen: I can if you prefer and hope my conn... never mind :) 15:11:00 slef: thanks 15:11:01 :) 15:11:18 #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, UNC 15:11:21 tcohen: Is this the development meeting or the general meeting? 15:11:37 tcohen: I think you want #topic Introductions 15:11:44 thd: got agenda link handy? 15:11:55 http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_3_and_4_June_2014 15:12:15 can anyone take the role for me? 15:13:00 tcohen: yes, say #chair NICKNAME 15:13:14 you'll need to add them as a chair with '#chair nick' 15:13:19 ;) 15:13:20 #chair slef 15:13:20 Current chairs: slef tcohen 15:13:24 #topic Introductions 15:13:25 :-P 15:13:25 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 15:13:32 Hello and welcome. Please use "#info" in front of your introduction to have it show up in the automatic minutes 15:13:39 #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, UNC 15:13:40 #info MJ Ray, software.coop, England 15:13:43 #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe 15:13:44 tcohen: You should set topics in the agenda with #topic Introductions, etc. 15:13:45 #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 15:13:54 thanks thd 15:14:33 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 15:15:24 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_3_and_4_June_2014 for agenda 15:15:27 other introductions will need to happen as we move on 15:15:30 thanks ashimema 15:15:49 #topic Announcements 15:15:51 ;) 15:15:56 #info The NZ TM has been registered and is being held in trust by HLT (rangi, 22:08:38) 15:16:16 * oleonard cheers 15:16:21 I think I saw a blog post about that earlier if anyone would like more details? 15:16:24 Any other announcements? 15:16:47 #link http://koha-community.org/nz-koha-trademark-update/ 15:16:59 #link http://koha-community.org/nz-koha-trademark-update/ 15:17:02 jinx 15:17:05 3.16 released since last meeting wasn't it? 15:17:11 that a worthy one? 15:17:26 ashimema: we've release updates next 15:17:34 lol.. yup. 15:17:35 my bad 15:17:37 so let's move to that 15:17:48 #topic Update on releases 15:18:13 ashimema: can you up arrow a few times, Home and add #info to that? ;-) 15:18:46 slef: arrow? 15:18:55 #info 3.16.1 will be released in mid-June; there will be some important bugfixes in it (gmcharlt, 22:11:08) 15:19:15 thd: yeah yeah my keyboard doesn't have arrows on it 15:19:58 Any RMs in? 15:20:05 Or RMaints 15:20:14 * gmcharlt is here, but well, nothing more to say about 3.16.1 15:20:16 I had an announcement, and a few comments on 3.18 15:20:19 slef: What mini device is that with no arrows? 15:20:25 #info Jane Wagner LibLime/PTFS 15:20:30 tcohen: go for it 15:20:39 #info Galen Charlton, ESI 15:20:51 * tcohen is concerned about Perl 5.18 compatibility 15:21:04 specifically the hash keys randomization 15:21:27 QueryParser has some issues with it; I'm planning to look at it 15:21:32 and am evaluating discouraging people from using distributions that ship Perl 5.18 for now 15:21:41 colin highlighted it some time ago if i remember rightly. 15:22:00 we agree.. we should be working toward newer perl compatability 15:22:01 #link http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1005122 is a description from late 2012 15:22:10 Is it random or merely inscrutable efficiency? 15:22:20 #info tcohen is concerned about Perl 5.18 compatibility and specifically the hash keys randomization 15:22:31 thd: each thread has its own seed 15:22:52 Sufficiently inscrutable efficiency is indistinguishable from random? 15:23:30 #link http://perldoc.perl.org/perl581delta.html#Hash-Randomisation is a more authoritative source 15:23:41 gmcharlt: I've been into QueryParser yesterday and it seems that it is related to the unit tests, and that the effects doesnt affect the semantics/results 15:23:42 "the ordering has already changed several times during the lifetime of Perl 5" 15:23:54 but i'm glad to hear that you're stepping in 15:24:09 tcohen: What is the actual issue, multithreaded behaviour or hash keys lack of recognisable orderliness? 15:24:28 tcohen: I disagree; the tests show that the hash-order randomization somehow leads to a given query being translated into different PQF queries 15:24:37 there is code that relies in things like grabbing the first element of a results hash 15:24:54 Should we be worried about the UTF-8-related changes on there? 15:25:10 IOW, it's pretty clearly an issue if you can't count on a given query being translated into the same base Z39.50 query 15:25:15 Do we rely on locale to set UTF-8 on filehandles at all? 15:25:18 gmcharlt: i agree, what i meant to say is that both PQF queries mean (ultimately) the same 15:27:19 gmcharlt: should we report QueryParser stuff to upstream or just patch our copy? 15:27:25 ashimema: any idea where colin highlighted it? I'm not finding it by searching yet. 15:27:39 tcohen: I intend to tackle both ends 15:27:51 bug 12343 15:27:52 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12343 normal, P5 - low, ---, abl, Needs Signoff , TransformKohaToMarc() is adding MARC subfields in random order 15:27:53 pass.. I'll see if I can dig it out.. 15:28:14 but i do remember the conversation coming up some time ago.. believe it was highlighted to jcamins.. 15:28:21 I am talking like a year or so though.. 15:28:21 tcohen++ 15:28:23 and possibly, if tuits permit (but I make no promises) see about factoring QP out into an independent CPAN module that both Koha and Evergreen can use 15:28:36 gmcharlt++ 15:28:41 Colin run's koha on his fedora machine.. so tends to pick up new perl issues pretty wuick 15:28:48 ok, any more #info we'd like to minute about this? 15:28:53 yes 15:29:05 tcohen: go ahead, please. 15:29:21 gmcharlt++ 15:29:45 UNC is about to provide 4 virtual machines, running Debian {6|7} and Ubuntu {12.04|14.04} 15:30:04 UNC++ 15:30:05 we'll need one more running Debian testing 15:30:10 #info UNC is about to provide 4 virtual machines, running Debian {6|7} and Ubuntu {12.04|14.04} 15:30:23 to have the master branch tested on all of them 15:30:47 UNC++ 15:30:51 cool 15:30:53 they will of course be jenkins nodes 15:31:49 who are the jenkins admins to coordinate this? rangi and gmcharlt? 15:31:54 tcohen: yep 15:31:59 awesome 15:32:24 ok, done 15:32:29 ok, moving on 15:32:39 #topic Code of Conduct 15:32:43 #link http://paste.koha-community.org/24 15:33:25 I think this is overdue and I suspect action has been inspired by #slutgate2014 15:33:58 Do people generally support the idea of adopting a code of conduct? 15:34:01 Is that an actual nick? 15:34:10 thd: it was a twitter hashtag I think 15:34:31 With regard to the wording "at any Koha event" -- does that mean it's limited to conferences, etc.? What about online meetings, general IRC or listserv? 15:35:40 We should be fostering an environment for which no one would ever think of behaving in a manner for which a code of conduct would ever need to be used. 15:35:52 jwagner: i'd agree to make general, but we should find a way to define how can it be enforced 15:35:55 jwagner: with respect to the Evergreen policy, the wording is intended to refer to physical events 15:36:00 I'd expect it to apply more widely, but I don't know if online already has its own policies. 15:36:07 however, the ultimate goal is to have it apply to online fora 15:36:18 similar to (say) the Code4Lib code of conduct 15:36:26 which explicitly includes the IRC channel and mailing list 15:36:33 I think it would be useful to find some wording to extend to online presences -- harassment can just as easily occur in virtual as well as physical 15:36:44 I would be in favor of having Koha's code of conduct extended to online 15:37:10 gmchart: If that is intended, then the word "posting" should be qualified. 15:37:15 ++ 15:37:40 I would prefer the wording to be more like Debian's, but I don't think we're debating detailed wording yet. 15:37:49 could we vote the code of conduct, and in a next meeting vote again on how it would be applied to online ? 15:38:06 Please can I have a show of +1 0 or -1 on the general idea of the code of conduct, not that exact wording? 15:38:21 The first use of the word "posting" is part of an overly broad statement which could have unintended consequences. 15:38:37 +1 15:38:42 +1 15:38:49 +1 # having a code of conduct 15:38:50 +1 15:39:10 +1 15:39:21 #link https://www.debian.org/vote/2014/vote_002#amendmenttexta includes debian's recent code just below that point 15:39:28 +1 # Only after some modest additional amendment. 15:39:34 and +1 from me, so... 15:39:53 #agreed the general idea of adopting a code of conduct, not that exact wording 15:40:17 Can those interested take the discussion/development of the wording to the email lists, please? 15:40:32 OK to move on? 15:40:47 slef, I'd suggest setting a deadline for coming up with wording, or it will drag on forever 15:41:10 shall we say by the July meeting for a final draft to vote on? 15:41:15 jwagner: would kohacon14 be a suitable deadline? 15:41:29 I don't really care -- whatever gives people time to work on it 15:41:33 it would be better to have it be approved prior to the conference 15:41:36 but open-ended discussions never get finished 15:41:49 +1 # deadline before conference 15:42:02 gmcharlt: agreed. When is it? ;-) 15:42:30 6-13 October 15:42:33 says my calendar 15:42:37 which might be wrong 15:42:42 that's correct slef 15:42:55 http://koha-community.org/kohacon/kohacon14/schedule/ 15:43:13 #agreed we would like this approved before kohacon14 15:43:21 OK to move on? 15:43:26 can we say that the current wording is approved 15:43:37 with a timeframe for ammendments? 15:43:38 tcohen: I'm not comfortable with it. 15:43:41 ok 15:44:05 as in, I'm sure it got ripped to shreds by one community I'm involved with, but I don't have it handy right now 15:44:16 they could be wrong or my memory may be wrong ;-) 15:44:19 tcohen: We should discuss the wording on the mailing list. I think a few people including myself have a problem with the language. 15:44:28 but I'd like to check and I apologise for not spotting the paste before now 15:44:43 * gmcharlt will start a thread on the general mailing list 15:44:49 gmcharlt++ 15:44:59 #action gmcharlt will start a thread on the general mailing list 15:45:05 #topic Kohacon14 15:45:35 We'll be calling for sponsorship the next week 15:45:36 tcohen: do you know about this? 15:45:40 heh 15:45:53 #info call for sponsorship expected next week 15:45:54 we have most of the stuff covered by UNC 15:46:10 we need funding for the spanish -> english translators 15:46:33 ^^^^^^ that'd be our main need 15:46:42 ¿Donde estan los elephantes? 15:46:58 as there are some latin-american speakers signed already 15:47:34 interpreters rather than translators, I assume? 15:47:40 exactly 15:48:01 that's it 15:48:16 right... I read from last meeting that a few presentations have been submitted 15:48:31 please let the community know if there is anything we can do to help 15:48:39 #topic kohacon15 15:49:02 i'm currently struggling to get hands to work on the conference site 15:49:07 There's a proposal from Nigeria and an expression of interest from Zambia. 15:49:14 #action mtj_ is going to repost the call for conference organisers for kohacon15 15:49:14 i already had it that way, slef. 15:49:26 wahanui: forget #action mtj_ 15:49:27 slef: I forgot #action mtj_ 15:50:09 tcohen: the conference website, or the physical site? 15:50:22 Anyone have other comments on kohacon15? 15:50:26 the website 15:50:27 i guess the website is http://www.koha-community.org 15:51:35 #info Can anyone help with the kohacon14 conference website, please? Contact tcohen 15:51:44 #topic Actions from the last meeting 15:51:45 thanks slef 15:51:57 afaik there are none - anyone want to correct me? 15:52:50 guessing not 15:53:02 #topic date and time of next meeting 15:53:13 how about july 2nd and 3rd same times 22 UTC and 15 UTC? 15:53:58 +1 15:54:06 is it just me, or is that sliding a day later? 15:54:09 Is that what was voted on in the previous session? 15:54:14 yeah 15:54:22 but rangi said we could unagree it if we wannt 15:54:27 Those dates are a problem in the US. 15:54:36 Not for me. 15:54:50 thd: howso? 15:55:00 The occur at the end of ALA and just before the US independence holiday. 15:55:10 * slef checks ALA 15:56:25 hrm, it's not on http://digital-conferences-calendar.info/ 15:56:40 http://ala14.ala.org/ 15:56:46 ALA runs from 26 June though 1 July 15:57:08 FWIW, I have no problem with 2/3 July for the next meeting 15:57:28 right - that's probably why it's slid a day then... seems OK to me... not great, but it's difficult to give everything a margin of several days 15:57:31 Some people would be returning from ALA on the 2 and 3 of July. 15:57:32 at least we don't overlap 15:58:21 thd: do you have a suggested alternative? 15:58:38 I would suggest adding a week. 15:59:21 Anyone mind adding a week? 15:59:48 s/adding a week/a week later/ 16:00:03 Fine with me 16:00:08 no objection 16:00:16 how about 9th and 10th July same times 22 UTC and 15 UTC? +1 0 or -1 please 16:00:24 +1 16:00:37 0 16:00:44 +1 16:01:18 +1 16:01:32 +1 16:01:45 #agreed 9th and 10th July same times 22 UTC and 15 UTC 16:01:54 the earlier meeting can flame us if they want ;-) 16:02:03 Thank you all for taking part 16:02:04 #endmeeting