21:03:22 #startmeeting General IRC meeting 19 November 2014, part 2 21:03:22 Meeting started Wed Nov 19 21:03:22 2014 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:03:22 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:03:22 The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_19_november_2014__part_2' 21:03:32 #topic introductions 21:03:32 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 21:03:38 please introuce yourself with #info! 21:04:24 it is time for the meeting, isn't it? 21:04:29 #info Bob Birchall, Calyx Australia 21:04:33 #info Joel Sasse Plum Creek, MN 21:04:48 #info nancyk Reno, Nevada Washoe County Library System 21:04:52 #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin 21:05:07 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 21:05:21 #info Jesse Maseto, BWS, USA 21:05:24 #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater 21:05:25 #info Olugbenga Adara Projektlink Konsult, Nigeria 21:05:25 #info! 21:05:28 #info edveal, BWS USA 21:05:35 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 21:05:49 #info Joy Nelson BWS, USA 21:05:50 #info Ed Veal ByWater 21:05:59 hey thanks for the link cait 21:06:26 yw 21:06:31 #topic Announcements 21:06:35 any announcements? 21:06:46 #Dani Elder BWS, USA 21:07:10 #info Liz Rea, Catalyst IT 21:07:11 #info Dani Elder BWS, USA 21:07:23 ES demo is up from Robin http://elasticsearch.koha.catalystdemo.net.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl 21:07:28 good news! 21:07:29 i guess good news is it looks like it's running properly. 21:07:44 but please start testing afterthe meeting :) 21:07:45 erm, I suppose a general announcement is that one should file bugs for anything website related on bugzilla, under "website" 21:07:46 #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville, Kentucky, USA 21:07:48 not totally ready for feedback though - since we're still doing lots of development 21:07:51 #info ES demo is up from Robin http://elasticsearch.koha.catalystdemo.net.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl 21:08:13 #info Koha, a community - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHav6PL_4Bo&feature=youtu.be A video made during KohaCon14 in Argentina got published yesterday 21:08:22 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Critical_circ_bugs 21:08:32 yes, we still need testing and patches 21:08:39 please keep an eye on that page and see how you can help 21:08:42 tcohen++ unc++ the video is cool 21:08:50 bgkriegel++ 21:08:59 moving on to the releases 21:09:11 #topic Update on releases (3.8 - 3.18) 21:09:17 #info Mario Guilin ByWater 21:09:18 rm or rmaints around? :) 21:09:31 bummer no tcohen 21:10:17 #info String Freeze for 3.18 is on 21th this week 21:10:24 see tomas' email earlier 21:10:25 #info a Beta for 3.18 was released a few days ago: please test 21:10:33 #info Release 3.18 is on 28th next week 21:10:34 i already had it that way, cait. 21:10:47 thx BobB 21:10:52 :) 21:11:00 ok, anything else? :) 21:11:13 i'd like to do elections next, like in the first meeting if that#s ok for everyone? 21:11:22 go for it 21:11:27 #topic Elections! 21:11:33 I voted yesterday, will pass 21:11:36 #info Nominations are http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.20 21:11:40 * bag already voted this morning (so I will pass too) 21:11:44 i also won't vote as i voted this morning 21:12:03 * BobB goes to grab breakfast 21:12:20 ok, first, RM 21:12:22 any questions? 21:13:07 ok, vote on Release manager now - candidate is Tomas Cohen Arazi 21:13:22 +1 21:13:26 +1, -1.. you know how it works :) 21:13:45 +1 21:13:46 +1 21:13:47 +1 21:13:49 +1 21:14:03 +1 21:14:24 hi anyone knows how to import bulk books to koha please? 21:14:25 :) 21:14:28 tcohen++ :) 21:14:40 learn_koha: we are int he middle of a meeting - maybe try again a bit later? 21:14:45 #agreed Release Manager 3.18: Tomas Cohen Arazi 21:14:52 Next are module maintainers 21:15:01 back 21:15:02 ok 21:15:13 mtj volunteered for the missing post of 3.16 rmaint, so we have a full set of rmaints now 21:15:21 any questions? 21:15:28 #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT 21:16:02 roles 21:16:03 any problem with voting them as a group? 21:16:12 +1 21:16:29 +1 for groups 21:16:30 +1 for group voting 21:16:35 please vote for the release maintainers now as listed on the wiki 21:16:43 +1 21:16:48 +1 21:16:55 +1 21:17:00 +1 21:17:01 +1 21:17:18 +1 21:19:35 #agreed Release Maintainers: Chris Cormack (3.18), Mason James (3.16), Fridolin Somers (3.14) 21:19:36 although, just for the sake of completeness, who does "..." represent? 21:19:36 barton: in case someone wanted to step up and maintain an older version 21:19:36 barton: That is you 21:19:36 HA 21:19:36 it just didn't get cleaned up form the page yet 21:19:36 so any questions about the module maintainers? 21:19:36 I'm good, cait. 21:19:36 Who was the only module maintainer who contributed last time? 21:19:37 trying to leave some room for questions in between voting - please tell me if i am too fast or slow 21:19:37 thd: not sure that's a fair question :) 21:19:37 I think it was the one doing OPAC 21:19:37 It is a very unfair question. 21:19:47 vote? 21:19:48 i guess vote is going to the list regardless of what we decide 21:20:01 Please vote for the module maintainers as listed on the wiki now 21:20:07 +1 21:20:14 +1 21:20:17 +1 21:20:22 +1 21:20:23 I assume that everyone contributes more than enough despite some adverse comment in the list. 21:20:23 +1 21:20:24 +1 21:20:30 +1 21:20:53 New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 13277: (QA followup) use t::lib::Mocks / Bug 13277: t/SuggestionEngine_AuthorityFile.t shouldn't depend on the DB / Bug 13278: (QA followup) use t::lib::Mocks / Bug 13278: t/Search.t shouldn't depend on the DB 21:21:03 ah, RM interrupts 21:21:06 #agreed Module Maintainers: Martin Renvoize (Auth), Colin Campbell (SIP), Kyle M Hall (Holds), Galen Charlton (Patron Privacy) 21:21:08 We had no QA manager for years, that was not a reason to remove the role. Now QA is well established. I hope that it will be the same for Module Maintainers < I agree with PaulP 21:21:24 i think it's worth giving it a second try 21:21:41 I think it's worth trying until we get there 21:21:42 nod. 21:21:49 next is translation manager 21:21:50 i already had it that way, cait. 21:21:53 any questions? 21:22:02 forget next 21:22:03 wizzyrea: I forgot next 21:22:05 ... and bgkriegel++ while we are there 21:22:18 bgkriegel++ 21:22:28 ok, please vote on translation manager now :) 21:22:33 +1 21:22:40 +1 21:22:41 +1 21:22:43 +1 21:22:44 +1 21:22:53 +1 21:23:16 #agreed Translation Manager: Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel 21:23:19 wahanui: next? 21:23:20 i don't know, bobb 21:23:29 i'd like to combine the documentation roles into one vote 21:23:40 and wuestions about documentation manager or database documentation manager? 21:24:22 please vote for (database) documentation manager 21:24:30 +1 21:24:31 +1 21:24:40 +1 21:24:45 +1 21:24:50 +1 21:24:56 +1 21:25:04 +1 21:25:05 #agreed (Database) Documentation Manager: Nicole Engard 21:25:05 +1 21:25:08 oh sorry 21:25:27 sent too fast 21:25:34 #chair drojf 21:25:34 Current chairs: cait drojf 21:25:41 you got randomly picked to do the votes for qa :) 21:25:53 oops 21:25:54 #agreed Documentation manager: Nicole Engard 21:26:01 thx wizzyrea 21:26:05 yep nw 21:26:06 not sure if it sticks without being chair 21:26:21 ok then, please vote for qa manager now 21:26:41 +1 I for one welcome our lovely QA overlord. 21:26:58 +1 21:27:02 +1 21:27:03 +1 21:27:04 +1 21:27:08 am i still allowed to vote? ^^ 21:27:09 +1 21:27:14 +1 21:28:13 #agreed Quality Assurance Manager Katrin Fischer 21:28:34 thx :) drojf++ 21:28:39 cait++ 21:28:45 next on the list is our QA team 21:28:46 do i have to rechair you? :) 21:28:47 any questions? 21:28:52 drojf: we both are now :) 21:29:42 ok, please vote on the qa team now 21:29:47 +1 21:29:54 +1 21:30:03 +1 21:30:16 +1 21:30:39 +1 21:30:42 +1 21:31:01 #agreed QA Team: Marcel de Rooy, Jonathan Druart, Paul Poulain, Christopher Brannon, Brendan Gallagher, Martin Renvoize, Kyle M Hall 21:31:12 ok, next is packaging manager... do we have a volunteer for that? 21:31:15 cait's minions 21:31:20 i wish :) 21:31:44 ok, we have one, it#s eythian 21:31:50 please vote for packaging manager :) 21:32:00 +1 21:32:01 +1 21:32:03 �0 21:32:04 +1 21:32:05 +1 21:32:06 +1 21:32:07 +1 21:32:38 #agreed Packaging Manager: Robin Sheat 21:32:47 last one is bug wrangler 21:32:54 any questions? 21:33:13 please vote :) 21:33:23 +1 21:33:24 +1 21:33:39 +1 21:33:42 +1 21:33:45 +1 21:33:54 +1 21:33:55 (+2 if magnus does neat stuff with kohadevbox) 21:34:00 :) 21:34:05 +1 21:34:08 +1 21:34:12 cait: There is one more category added. 21:34:12 #agreed Bug Wrangler: Magnus Enger 21:34:15 yes 21:34:18 i am not sure how to deal with that 21:34:25 because the nominations were added after the first meeting today 21:35:01 not that i don't like the category but i think we should vote that next time then? 21:35:06 The first meeting can vote again next month. 21:35:25 i am not sure it would make sense to split like that 21:35:38 i'd like to not spread out a vote over a month :) 21:35:39 cait: OK, I agree. 21:35:56 i don't think people won't be voted 21:36:14 did you plan to start right away? 21:36:57 cait: no, you should read my proposal. 21:37:03 i haven't yet to be honest 21:37:06 didn't have the time 21:37:25 However, the whole role should be open to everyone always. 21:37:26 hi cait, I can speak to this 21:37:33 Personally, I think if they are volunteering, and they want to do it, they should. 21:38:01 i don't think postponing the vote should/will keep anyone from volunteering on things 21:38:01 wizzyrea++ 21:38:06 #info the first meeting decided to advertise the role on the list and call for nominations 21:38:20 I think so too 21:38:27 we don't keep people from cleaning up the wiki now :) 21:38:28 #info Then there were no nominations, now there are 21:38:50 yeah, vote next time, if it really requires a vote? 21:38:53 #info So I think it still needs a short note to the list, but now ... 21:39:03 I guess that's the part I don't understand, why it actually needs a vote? 21:39:06 that note can point to the wiki and existing nominations 21:39:09 I wrote the entry in plural form like bug wrangler. 21:39:13 and we vote at next month's meeting 21:39:24 in the meantime, of course, those willing continue 21:39:49 makes sense, BobB. 21:39:57 wizzyrea: i think because we want to give it a more official touch :) 21:40:11 as you wish 21:40:14 the same as for other roles 21:40:52 #info official elections for Wiki curator to take place next meeting 21:41:07 cool 21:41:12 we got a release team! 21:41:36 well done cait and thank you!!!! to all team members 21:41:39 #topic Establish a Road Map for Koha 21:42:02 #info this arises from a discussion on the sidelines of KohaCon 21:42:27 #info Until at least 3.12 we had a roadmap that was time (release) based 21:42:40 #info the idea is to re-create the roadmap, but not time based 21:43:04 #info so it serves a little like a strategic plan for the code, less formal 21:43:37 #info we suggest taht the first meeting after the Release should review the release and discuss updates to the roadmap 21:44:03 #info but maintaining the roadmap can be a continuous process, of course 21:44:32 #info the other idea was that items in the roadmap would be described in just a few lines ... 21:44:45 with a link to another page providing a full RFS 21:44:50 that 21:44:55 's it 21:45:24 #info with a link to another page providing a full RFC 21:45:26 even 21:45:31 thanks again BobB 21:45:53 BobB: You seem to be describing a wiki. 21:46:08 it would of course be a page on teh wiki 21:46:23 on phone 21:46:36 I think we had talked about the wiki too in argentina when discussing this 21:46:46 https://www.drupal.org/roadmap I would like to see a page like this 21:46:49 on our website 21:47:35 i think maybe draft on the wiki 21:47:44 and when we have a stable state we could move it to the website? 21:47:48 or have a link 21:47:58 https://core.trac.wordpress.org/roadmap or something like this 21:48:11 the dashboard does some of that 21:48:12 +1 21:48:22 I think for now we are just trying to get it going again 21:48:42 I'm suggesting ways in which it could be done ;) 21:48:43 the process and what it's like will come with time :) for now - yes let's do it or not 21:48:55 #link https://core.trac.wordpress.org/roadmap 21:48:58 Koha needs a roadmac 21:49:01 Is wiki content ever stable? 21:49:01 roadmap. 21:49:12 #link https://www.drupal.org/roadmap 21:49:30 i am pro trying a roadmap, but i think we need tomake sure it's not a promise 21:49:35 for a certain release or date 21:49:43 well looks like a promise 21:50:08 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugzilla:Roadmap 21:50:15 bugzilla has a nice, wiki based, example. 21:50:24 when the roadmap is discussed after releases it may be a good moment to transfer a current state from teh wiki to the website 21:50:25 #link https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugzilla:Roadmap 21:50:32 which makes use of the internal bugzilla priorities 21:50:55 back 21:51:32 welcome back BobB 21:52:01 the first meeting suggested discussing the road map more at the next meeting, which will be shortly after release I think 21:52:29 indeed cait 21:52:36 yeah lets do the roadmap next meeting :D 21:52:45 also to 'Have a retrospective meeting as part of the release process' 21:52:55 did you vote yes or no in general for a roadmap in the first meeting? 21:53:01 Sadly, I am unlikely toi be able to attend the next meeting but I will read the logs and any discussion on the mailing list. 21:53:04 we could collect examples on the wiki until then, or on the next agenda 21:53:21 i think it got positive response 21:53:27 will keep you posted, thd 21:53:46 BobB and bag were there too this morning, so I hope they correct me :) 21:53:48 My specific proposal for the wiki was mostly related to other maintenance issues. 21:53:53 well ... when i got something wrong :) 21:54:03 it got positive response withut a formal vote 21:54:44 it's a good idea. 21:54:50 i think it's a good idea 21:54:53 there were no objections is maybe a good way to put it 21:54:54 yes, exactly :D 21:55:01 ok, so going to add ideas to next meetings agenda? 21:55:06 cait++ 21:55:21 yes please 21:55:25 #agreed We will gather information and ideas for the road map on the next meetings agenda 21:55:40 #topic Establish new roles within the release team 21:55:56 we already heard a bit about the idea of having a wiki curator i think 21:56:03 the other idea is having a communication manager 21:56:07 BobB: could you explain? 21:56:08 One of the key things I examine for any software project which posts one is the development roadmap. 21:56:19 yeah I think we have resolved wiki curator for now? 21:56:46 thd: i think the danger is that we can't give guarantees formost things - as we are on time based - hope we can avoid wrong expectations 21:57:22 I also prefer feature based releases but that has not worked as well for the project. 21:57:23 i understood the roadmap to be not time/releasebased so i see no problem there 21:57:29 thd that is a core aspect of the proposal - the roadmap will not be time based 21:57:44 drojf++ good comment 21:58:20 A statement of "these are the things we're working on, but we don't know when we'll get them done" 21:58:35 or "these are the goals we have for the project" 21:58:40 and maybe a statement of priority. 21:58:42 yes, prominently 21:59:09 or just whether it is being worked on now or not 21:59:37 should we omve on to Communication Manager? 21:59:45 #info on the sidelines of KohaCon there was discussion about adding a Communications Manager role to the release team 22:00:09 yes let's move on cait 22:00:30 #info this is to be a coordinating role, more than a doing role 22:00:58 we thought it would be a role a librarian could fulfill, rather than a developer, 22:01:07 so that it does not consume development time 22:01:24 but is active in seeing the project is promoted more than it is now 22:01:37 So: prompting other people to write stuff, 22:01:54 liaising with the (excellent) newsletter team 22:01:56 BobB: is this written up anywhere? or waiting for vote and then forwarding to mailing list? 22:02:18 its in the minutes of the first meeting I guess 22:02:50 not elsewhere, in any great detail 22:03:12 ok cool - I have some people in mind 22:03:19 I don't have anything to hand bag 22:03:26 Is this the role Kahtiki [please correct my spelling]? 22:03:39 I think the question is: do we endorse the role 22:03:54 if so, it can be fleshed out and call for nominations put out to the list 22:04:00 is it supposed to be some kind of official spokesperson to direct inquieres to? 22:04:07 BobB: no worries - I'm thinking a phone call will work from me (of course) 22:04:16 drojf: nope 22:04:25 thd: no 22:04:40 droif not necessarily, but it could be if the community had that level of confidence 22:04:55 so maybe that could come later 22:05:00 ok 22:05:03 i think we started with a discussion that we do great things, but don't tlak about it 22:05:13 and trying to think of ways how we could make that happen 22:05:34 Stuff gets on list but not pushed as a press release e.g. to Marshall Breeding 22:05:55 we should ask marshall breeding to publish our newsletter. 22:06:02 makes sense. thinking of the excellent video that was done in argentina… we could probably have more things pushed to the outside world 22:06:32 rangi had a few good things to say in it too - check the logs 22:06:47 we just found out there is a union catalogue in Argentina with a thousand public libraries: wow! but who knows that? 22:07:10 the idea is someone to help us all promote koha better (not protect it) 22:07:16 but not an evangelist 22:07:30 the closed source systems have marketing departments, we have word of mouth :) 22:07:48 orthe public libraries in greece 22:08:03 or phillipines or turkey ... 22:08:06 sort of more a journalist 22:08:13 yeah what cait and BobB are saying 22:08:56 turkey... not greece, although who knows? :) 22:08:57 more to pull stuff together and to get it out there, rather than to do stuff oneself 22:09:28 and of course whomeever volunteers for this - will help create and shape the roll 22:09:33 BobB: i think that may have to do with the "free & open" thing. you can get every information you would ever like to have about koha by yourself. that is not the case with proprietary systems. but we should not assume that everyone will know that and/or want to go looking for all the things themselves 22:09:43 should we have a quick vote to see if people like the idea? 22:09:54 yup good point drojf 22:10:01 exactly droif 22:10:06 (voted this morning) 22:10:13 I like it, but I don't know if it's going to be economically possible for a volunteer to do what you are asking. 22:10:29 i think if we got a bit more done than now... already a win 22:10:37 and maybe it could grow into a team? 22:10:40 if they do a bit, its more than now :) 22:12:06 We can put it out to the list, if there is not response, nothing is lost, 22:12:11 ok, quick like/not like vote? 22:12:12 but if someone comes forward, its a win 22:12:24 http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Release_Announcements <-- david nind did this 22:12:29 +1 like it 22:12:32 and used to, (still does some) update stuff 22:12:37 i think thats a good start 22:12:43 yeah that's pretty cool 22:12:49 right thank you for saying that cait and BobB - more is better than nothing and being overwhelmed 22:13:01 +1 i like it too 22:13:02 actually even someone sending notices about releases to the places that are likely to publish that sort of thing would do good. 22:14:21 first meeting agreed to have BobB send something to the mailing list 22:14:36