22:10:10 <tcohen> #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2
22:10:10 <huginn> Meeting started Wed Jun  3 22:10:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:10:10 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
22:10:10 <huginn> The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_2'
22:10:22 <tcohen> #topic Introductions
22:10:22 <wahanui> #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
22:10:42 <tcohen> please introduce yourselves using #info
22:10:53 <wizzyrea> #info Liz Rea, Catalyst
22:10:54 <tcohen> #info Tomas Cohen Arazi
22:11:01 <eythian> #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington
22:11:01 <cait> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
22:11:12 <pianohacker> #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions
22:11:40 <indradg> #info Indranil Das Gupta, India
22:12:05 <tcohen> last time part 2 was only eythian and dcook (half of him) so, pretty good
22:12:06 <rangi> #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst
22:12:34 <tcohen> ok
22:12:49 <tcohen> #topic RM 3.22 comments
22:13:21 <tcohen> I'll repeat myself from part 1
22:13:52 <tcohen> i've been really happy with the 3.20 release
22:14:13 <tcohen> we are upgrading to 3.20 really soon
22:14:22 <wizzyrea> \o/
22:14:25 <tcohen> i'd like to congratulate all of you for such a nice release
22:15:09 <tcohen> several month ago cool projects were started from several community members
22:15:14 <eythian> I think we have someone who'll be going prod on 3.20, too.
22:15:26 <rangi> yup, i upgraded them last night
22:15:39 <tcohen> and the posibility of them making it for the next release
22:15:54 <tcohen> could make it a major milestone for the project
22:16:04 <tcohen> for that to happen
22:16:21 <tcohen> we need to boost involvement from the dev team members in other people's projects
22:17:25 <tcohen> a full REST api, the posibility of using a web framework, Elastic Search, easier UI maintenance/coding/testing introducing angularjs, etc
22:17:46 <tcohen> lots of cool stuff that could even boost participation from younger people
22:18:13 <tcohen> anyway, the future looks exciting and efforts need to be done
22:18:30 <tcohen> all those words I wrote, need to be discussed, decisions made, and of course coded and tested
22:18:37 <eythian> that would be a huge release if all those were in there.
22:19:04 <tcohen> probably utopical, but something in that direction is quite possible
22:19:34 <tcohen> i might need to leave in a couple minutes oops
22:19:40 <tcohen> to the point
22:20:01 <tcohen> i'll try to keep a 3-week cycle for dev meetings
22:20:12 <tcohen> and as said on part 1
22:20:26 <tcohen> will set a trello board for the big stuff everyone is working on
22:20:49 <eythian> grump proprietary tools grump
22:20:52 <tcohen> jonathan proposed hosting our own libreboard
22:21:01 <rangi> yeah we could use libreboard or taiga
22:21:02 <tcohen> we were all open to that
22:21:09 <rangi> taiga is easy
22:21:13 <tcohen> if someone volunteers
22:21:31 <tcohen> the important thing is all of us having the whole picture of what's going on
22:21:46 <rangi> i reckon we could put taiga in our cloud eh eythian, just need to check, but i think it should be fine
22:21:50 <eythian> sure
22:21:55 <pianohacker> I'm going to wait to start volunteering bsw
22:21:58 <pianohacker> w
22:22:01 <eythian> I already add things to it without really asking :)
22:22:03 <cait> bsw?
22:22:08 <pianohacker> *bws's servers until I've been here a bit longer
22:22:11 <cait> oh
22:22:12 <cait> got it
22:22:20 <pianohacker> typing is hard
22:22:23 <wizzyrea> lol
22:22:42 <eythian> that's OK, our cloud people want it to be stress tested a bit :)
22:22:49 <pianohacker> m'excellent
22:22:54 <eythian> So I we look into it
22:22:59 <eythian> err
22:23:04 <eythian> you know what I meant. Typing is hard.
22:23:08 <tcohen> before I let cait chair, just wanted to mention that for the next topic, I promised to ask Julian Maurice to attend to a meeting soon, dedicated to the RESTful aPI, so we can discuss the current aproach and even make decisions about it
22:23:09 <pianohacker> see?
22:23:31 <cait> me chair?
22:23:42 <tcohen> #chair cait
22:23:42 <huginn> Current chairs: cait tcohen
22:23:48 <tcohen> cool
22:23:57 <tcohen> sorry, baby urgency
22:24:08 <tcohen> bbl
22:24:15 <cait> slightly unprepared
22:24:18 <cait> please help me a bit :)
22:24:25 <cait> so i tihnk that was the RM comments
22:24:29 <pianohacker> that does qualify. What's next on the agenda?
22:24:30 <wizzyrea> can't compete with baby urgency.
22:24:31 <cait> as he is gone, I suggest we move on
22:24:42 <cait> #topic Planning the 3.22 release
22:24:44 <eythian> #action robin to look into hosting taiga
22:24:49 <cait> thx eythian
22:24:55 <eythian> (otherwise I'll forget)
22:25:05 <cait> does it record your actions or only mine?
22:25:12 <eythian> I have no idea
22:25:15 <cait> #action robin to look into hosting taiga
22:25:19 <cait> now it will be there no matter what
22:25:29 <cait> ok, i think we have heard about the trello/taiga idea
22:25:37 <cait> another idea i spotted in the logs is Blocker monday?
22:25:48 <pianohacker> I was curious about that as well
22:25:49 <cait> hassomeone here attended the first meeting as well?
22:26:26 <pianohacker> http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_1.2015-06-03-15.10.log.txt starting at 15:32:57
22:26:51 <cait> as I understood it the idea is to find some times for monday meetings to talk specifically about big developments blocking other developments and general blockers
22:26:59 <cait> kyle has started something like a survey on the mailing list
22:27:13 <cait> koha-devel - for anyone interested
22:27:27 <cait> there are a few big items listed on the agenda
22:27:34 <cait> #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_3_June_2015
22:28:08 <cait> does someone want to add something to the list?
22:28:25 <cait> I think a quick update on the state of Elastic would be cool :)
22:28:25 <pianohacker> I don't think we have any of the big players for the restful api here
22:29:06 <eythian> cait: I've been delayed by other things, but Kathryn has now been fighting to get them out of my way, so I'm back on it pretty much only for a little while.
22:29:17 <eythian> Also, I have basic staff client searching working.
22:29:22 <wizzyrea> \o/
22:29:24 <pianohacker> excellent
22:29:34 <wizzyrea> kathryn++
22:29:35 * eythian needs to update his demo server.
22:29:52 <cait> kathryn++ :)
22:30:04 <cait> eythian: tell me when i can test again ;)
22:30:11 <eythian> suuuuuure ;)
22:30:27 <eythian> I'll probably do that today
22:30:28 <wizzyrea> hehe
22:30:40 <cait> #info ElasticSearch: basic staff client search works
22:30:49 <cait> #action eythian to update the elastic search demo server
22:31:01 <cait> so you don't forget :)
22:31:04 <eythian> heh
22:31:15 <cait> anyone about file upload?
22:31:30 <cait> note: it depends on the changes to opacbaseurl including the protocol i think
22:31:43 <wizzyrea> is there a bug # for that?
22:31:48 <pianohacker> woah, what changes to opacbaseurl?
22:31:57 * pianohacker <-- still out of the loop
22:32:04 * wizzyrea too
22:34:18 <cait> there is a mix now
22:34:33 <cait> somefeatures expect protocol to be part of the pref others not
22:34:49 <cait> i think basically trying to fix that up - but i haven't worked on it
22:35:05 <cait> bug 6847
22:35:06 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6847 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kohapatch, ASSIGNED , Bulk userid, password generation and email
22:35:07 <pianohacker> joy, okay.
22:35:12 <cait> oh not that one
22:35:22 <cait> bug 6874
22:35:23 <wahanui> rumour has it bug 6874 is epic
22:35:23 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Passed QA , Attach a file to a MARC record (Was: File upload in MARC)
22:35:35 <cait> bug 5010
22:35:36 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5010 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Passed QA , Fix OPACBaseURL to include protocol
22:35:37 <wahanui> it has been said that bug 5010 is scary
22:36:32 <pianohacker> good gracious
22:36:52 <cait> comments? additions?
22:37:43 <pianohacker> only comment is that it should include the protocol
22:38:11 <pianohacker> we have some systems on https for their opac and some not, and while they should all arguably be https, we need to capture that
22:38:26 <cait> some need to be https, like when using shibboleth or cas i guess
22:38:33 <indradg> pianohacker +1
22:38:33 <cait> and in general... you shoudl be using https
22:38:42 <cait> ok if there is nothing else, we are moving on
22:38:48 <cait> #topic Action from last meeting
22:39:27 <cait> hm looks like it's all been done
22:39:30 <wizzyrea> I have a comment >.<
22:39:40 <wizzyrea> on the opacbaseurl
22:39:51 <wizzyrea> I feel squidgy about it being in the sysprefs at all.
22:39:59 <wizzyrea> it should be in koha_conf
22:40:08 <rangi> i agree, moving it to the config file makes a lot more sense
22:40:31 <pianohacker> agreed
22:40:32 <wizzyrea> intranetbaseurl tool.
22:40:34 <wizzyrea> too*
22:40:36 <rangi> yup
22:41:02 <wizzyrea> my feeling is that we're still using it because "it's how we've always done it"
22:41:05 <cait> #idea move opacbaseurl and intranetbaseurl to koha_conf
22:41:19 <cait> i wonder if there are any implications for multi branch setups
22:41:29 <wizzyrea> baseurl has never been branch specific
22:41:30 <cait> but can't really think of something
22:41:39 <wizzyrea> there's only one pref :P
22:41:51 <pianohacker> how would we go about migrating that, though? Helper that checks the config then the syspref, and move it to the config for new installs?
22:41:55 <cait> are we ok about including the protocol?
22:42:02 <pianohacker> I'm in favor
22:42:03 <eythian> pianohacker: probably a fallback, yeah
22:42:07 <cait> maybe the code could be pushed then and in a second step move it
22:42:25 <cait> ihope the patches add consistency about the expected fomat
22:42:49 <pianohacker> cait: does the plan for that bug involve a migration that will prepend the protocol to the syspref if it's missing?
22:43:23 <cait> i haven'tchecked the code myself, i don't know
22:44:16 <pianohacker> looks like it, yes
22:44:23 <pianohacker> kk, good
22:45:26 <pianohacker> cait: could I talk for a bit about Rancor after this?
22:45:51 <cait> sure :)
22:45:55 <cait> changed the topic too early i guess
22:46:21 <cait> #topic Planning the 3.22 release cont
22:46:24 <cait> go ahead
22:47:02 <pianohacker> (quick refresher: Rancor is the code name for the professional cataloging interface for Koha that I've been working on for the past two years.)
22:47:46 <pianohacker> In a discussion with cait, she mentioned the possibility of bringing in Rancor as an experimental feature and hammering out the bugs as time goes on
22:48:17 <pianohacker> I was in favor of this, as my every-single-feature 4-page-long test plan that I posted on bug 11559 garnered, for some reason, little enthusiasm
22:48:18 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Professional cataloger's interface
22:48:35 <eythian> heh
22:49:17 <pianohacker> I wanted to ask you all a) what you thought of this b) how we should mark Rancor as experimental within the UI and c) what I should provide to make this a possibility
22:49:34 <cait> hm not quite what i said :P
22:49:41 <pianohacker> glad I asked then :)
22:49:44 <wizzyrea> a. I like it, for something that big iterative is probably better.
22:49:47 <eythian> I think we should agree that cait said it.
22:49:49 <pianohacker> cait: in your words without my optimistic filter
22:50:01 <cait> itihnk we should still get it through the normal qa process, but it's big
22:50:14 <cait> so there will still things being missed probably
22:50:15 <wizzyrea> well, we should decide what it needs at an absolute minimum
22:50:44 <wizzyrea> UI wise, we should probably require that it be enabled somehow
22:50:46 <wizzyrea> syspref, probably
22:51:01 <wizzyrea> so that it absolutely does not get in the way of people who don't and won't ever want to use it.
22:51:15 <cait> what i said was that it was nice it's independent - so we don't need to worry too much if we can make sure it doesn't break existing features and doesn't create invalid data or something evil
22:51:33 <cait> there will be workarounds with the existing editor
22:51:39 <pianohacker> cait: okay, cool. That's generally what I was thinking
22:51:43 <pianohacker> +1 to liz's idea
22:51:46 <wizzyrea> but possibly also show a message on the cataloguing screen (or make an intranet news item?) that says "hey, there's a new cataloguing system help us out by testing it"
22:52:13 <wizzyrea> "here's how you do that, file your bugs here, thanks for your participation blah blah"
22:52:28 <cait> hm i'd maybe put in a staff news or soemthing in the release notes
22:52:38 <cait> having it constantly shw on cataloguing might get annoying :)
22:52:49 <cait> not sure there is a good place for iton those screen
22:52:49 <cait> s
22:53:00 <wizzyrea> I was thinking maybe only for superlibrarians
22:53:16 <pianohacker> I'm more in favor of the intranet news item as well
22:53:27 <wizzyrea> as they're the only ones with permissions to change sysprefs
22:53:42 <wizzyrea> but I'm not fussed either way ;)
22:54:14 <pianohacker> cait: would a test plan for the little bits and pieces of code that are touched outside Rancor itself, and the UI/syspref to enable/disable it be a good next step?
22:55:33 <cait> sorry,  I am a bit slow tonight
22:55:38 <cait> let me reread that sentence
22:55:47 <wizzyrea> I had a thought, maybe we should have a specific area in the sysprefs for "experimental features"
22:55:50 <cait> sounds good to me
22:56:02 <cait> if it really gets long, you might want to move the test plan outside bugzilla maybe
22:56:15 <cait> not sure where to put it, maybe the wiki
22:56:32 <cait> i find long text in bugzilla a bit hard to read at times
22:56:33 <pianohacker> cait: the test plan for the outside-rancor code in those patches will be waaaaay shorter than the test plan for rancor itself :)
22:56:56 <cait> that feeds my hope of it not breaking something :)
22:57:02 <cait> ok, anything else before we close?
22:57:33 <cait> #action pianohacker to add a test plan addendum for outside-rancor code being touched by the patches (bug 11559)
22:57:34 <pianohacker> cait: mind putting an action for the test plan and syspref to enable/disable?
22:57:34 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Professional cataloger's interface
22:57:41 <pianohacker> heh, why thank you ;)
22:57:58 <cait> #action pianohacker to add a pref to turn off/on the new editor
22:58:01 <cait> ok? :)
22:58:05 <pianohacker> yup ypu
22:58:08 <eythian> whatever the continuation of an action is: I have a server for taiga built
22:58:11 <cait> can someone check if the last meeting already agreed on a date/time?
22:58:16 <cait> eythian++ :)
22:58:38 <pianohacker> cait: not in the posted log
22:58:42 <wizzyrea> #action pianohacker to add news item to notify koha users of experimental cataloguing interface
22:58:51 <pianohacker> thanks liz
22:58:53 <cait> hm in 3 weeks that would be
22:59:02 <cait> July 25th?
22:59:06 <cait> 15 and 22 utc again?
22:59:11 <cait> #topic Set date and time for next meeting
22:59:13 <pianohacker> oh nvm, I'm blind. But +1 to that date and time
22:59:49 <cait> any veto?
22:59:58 <cait> i will add it as a suggestion then and leave final decision to tcohen
23:00:10 <cait> i think they also talked about a meeting for the rest api next week
23:00:13 <cait> so plans might change
23:00:36 <cait> #info suggestion for the next meeting date: july 25th, 15 + 22 utc
23:00:47 <cait> #endmeeting