10:02:49 #startmeeting General IRC meeting 6 April 2016 10:02:49 Meeting started Wed Apr 6 10:02:49 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 10:02:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 10:02:49 The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016' 10:02:50 Hi #koha 10:02:53 #topic Introductions 10:02:53 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 10:02:58 I have a meeting with the University Dean right now, but I also want to inform you on the Kohacon preparation progress 10:03:05 please introduce yourself with #info, followuing wahanui's example 10:03:07 #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany 10:03:17 ikourmou: if we do kohacon first, would that work for you? 10:03:20 #info Marc Véron, marc veron ag, Allschwil, Switzerland 10:03:22 hi mveron 10:03:26 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 10:03:36 #info Claire Gravely, UAL, UK 10:03:44 I would be glad if we could talk about it in an hour or so... 10:03:45 #info Arslan Farooq, Islamabad, Pakistan 10:03:53 #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 10:03:58 ikourmou: i can push it to the end, but not sure it will last an hour this time :) 10:04:00 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 10:04:05 mabe come back and people interested will still be around? 10:04:07 we can make it last an hour :P 10:04:15 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_6_April_2016 10:04:31 #info Giannis Kourmoulis, AUTh, Greece 10:04:46 ok, thanks. I will try to be back ASAP 10:04:52 ok :) 10:05:09 let's wait for 2 more minutes then move 10:05:10 on 10:05:41 [off] I'll have to leave in 20 minutes :-| Please excuse me in advance. 10:06:34 * drojf throws coffee at bag 10:06:44 drojf: he won't attend - 3 am :) 10:06:51 more coffee!1 10:07:10 kidclamp: #info! :) 10:07:11 #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions 10:07:19 morning cait 10:07:22 and all 10:07:26 #topic Announcements 10:07:36 so, any announcements? :) 10:08:13 related to koha? 10:08:23 yes, or anything else that fits here 10:09:05 bag told me he thinks about having an ES bug sqash/test day 10:09:19 so keep an eye out for that 10:09:42 anything else? 10:09:43 well, anything else is just being crap 10:10:40 * drojf throws coffee at jajm 10:10:53 * drojf throws coffee all around ;) 10:11:06 aggressive germans... :) 10:11:16 ok, moving on 10:11:17 nooo. coffee is love :) 10:11:24 #topic Update on releases 10:11:55 one sec, looking for a link 10:13:04 #info Freeze dates for 16.05 have been set: Feature freeze - April 28th and Release on May 26 10:13:07 #link http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2016-March/042559.html 10:13:30 the queues are looking ok'ish right now 10:13:35 but there is a lot stuck in failed qa 10:13:55 and also a lot of nice things waiting for sign-off 10:14:09 Needs Signoff - 136, 20 bugs 10:14:20 Failed QA - 251 10:14:27 Patch Doesn't apply - 82 10:14:57 GBSD went well I think - thx everyone for attending! :) 10:15:05 anything else people woud like to add? 10:16:15 drojf: more coffee throwing please! 10:16:17 moving on 10:16:22 :-) 10:16:29 #topic Hackfest in Berlin 10:16:49 drojf: ? 10:16:59 white shirt here, cait! 10:17:00 i got ~10 registrations so far and another two or three pending (of up to ~20), which is pretty cool 10:17:10 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Berlin_Hackfest_2016 10:17:17 apart from that… we got the catmandu workshop, we might have a workshop or talk about ILL if atheia can join us 10:17:18 (maybe magnuse would like to tell something about the norway part too if he can attend?) 10:17:19 #info 10 registrations so far 10:17:41 #info catmandu workshop will happen, other workshops pending 10:18:08 i think that is it basically 10:18:18 will you advertise on the german mailing list too? 10:18:31 yes. did not get to that yet 10:18:41 but i will 10:18:55 Any plans to record informational presentations from HackFest? 10:18:57 I sent the link to a few people - but i think we can get to 20 easily :) 10:19:24 i think there will be more demand than places easily 10:20:43 is 20 a super hard limit? 10:21:15 no. there maybe be options for a few more, but not all in one room then 10:21:44 depending on the weather there is a terrace we can use and i might talk my office mates into sharing that too 10:21:56 cool 10:21:57 but i would look into that once it is relevant 10:22:02 yeha makes sense 10:22:22 * cait will be attending :) 10:22:25 thd: you mean audio/video? that is not planned 10:22:55 i think we got nz, usa, italy, hopefully uk and maybe norway so far. well and germany of course 10:23:29 drojf: Yes, I mean more or less impromptu introductions to something as tend to occur at hackfests. 10:23:38 drojf: netherlands? 10:23:54 ah right, still count eythian as nz :D 10:24:00 an incomplete list canbe found here: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Kohacon_2016:_Who_is_arriving_when 10:24:12 that is very incomplete 10:24:27 yeah, people should add themselves :) 10:25:11 i think everyone can tell... i am very excited about this event - and also about kohacon, but we will talk about that later when ikourmou is back 10:25:12 thd: i do not really have equipment for that. if there are presentations (like slides and stuff) i guess that can be shared 10:25:45 if we take any notes/draw up something that could be shared too 10:26:30 anything else? 10:26:30 somebody said anything else was just being crap 10:26:49 i think that is all 10:26:54 People seldom have anything as formal as slides for hackfest introductions to some technical issues. Anything that might ... 10:26:55 for now 10:27:14 #chair drojf 10:27:14 Current chairs: cait drojf 10:27:21 help with sharing useful stuff more widely would be good. 10:27:44 thd: if people take notes and want to make them public we can put them in the wiki 10:28:04 but i can't promise anything, it depends on the people taking part :) 10:28:17 drojf: Of course ;) 10:28:42 i hope we got some kind of writeuo in the end to see what we have done :) 10:28:46 writeup 10:29:47 * cait can try to help with that 10:29:53 so we skip kohacon 16? 10:29:59 but maybe poke me/remind me about it 10:30:08 i think we skip kohacon16 for now and see when ikourmou comes back 10:30:11 yep 10:30:12 moving on 10:30:23 #topic Rules for announcements to the main mailinglist 10:30:39 we could have done kohacon 17 ;) 10:31:06 anyway 10:31:22 my notes are gone 10:31:44 hm? 10:31:46 simple question is, do we want some kind of rules for recurring announcements on the mailing list or do people not care? 10:32:24 it seems ot have settled down a bit now 10:32:28 hello 10:32:28 hola, farooq 10:32:44 personally i think its a little much on a list with not too much traffic to have announcements for an event like every five days, as it happened lately. but that was probably the only event where that ever happened 10:32:49 i m trying to import data.. in koha library system 10:33:22 hi farooq - we are having an irc meeting right now - can you please come back with your question in half an hour or so? 10:33:24 What kind of rules has anyone thought might be necessary or helpful. 10:33:31 and i know i am easily annoyed by such things, basically i'd like to know if others are too or if i just filter such things when they happen 10:33:34 you can of course stay and listen in 10:33:37 I'm back 10:33:44 ok sure 10:33:48 thank you 10:33:57 i think that case was a little annoying, but maybe don't need a rule yet 10:34:04 thd: something simple like "do not repeat announcements more often than every 2 weeks" or somehting like that 10:34:08 and see if that is a repeeating thing 10:35:03 we are not really many people today anyway, maybe i send the question to the list instead 10:35:04 Anyone announcing something every five days where the interval seems disproportionate might simply be sent a simple private reminder about being more polite on a fairly low traffic list. 10:35:10 I tend to filter, but I think the recent example was probably a "one off" (hopefully) 10:35:27 thd +1 10:36:19 If there has only been one incident that people can site of something without grave harm, making rules at this point would seem to be overkill. 10:36:20 thd: i sent a reminder and got a snarky remark 10:36:31 like "its different info now" which was not true 10:36:37 which i found even more annoying 10:36:44 and then they switched the person sending it 10:36:54 ok, seems there is soem tendency to not 'rule' it for now, but also that it is in fact annoying if it happens more often? 10:37:34 the problem with filterin is, you miss the point where it is annoying for everyone 10:37:42 How 'moderated' is the Koha list currently? 10:37:48 but i am not the list admin, so… 10:38:08 thd: to my knowledge not moderated if you are subscribed 10:38:13 thd: i think "not". only mails that are not on the list are moderated, otherwise i don't remember any interference 10:39:13 There have been triggers for moderation in the past for too many CCs. 10:39:33 Usually examined and passed with some delay. 10:39:37 ok so we wait and see if it happens again and leave it for now? 10:39:52 and back you up next time it happens 10:40:37 okay with me 10:40:55 so, kohacon then? 10:40:58 Even a rule for this annoying incident would need some work to achieve the intended effect if people are ignoring a polite request for politeness. 10:41:01 #info wait and see if there are more repeated announcements, leaving it for now 10:41:03 yes 10:41:11 #topic KohaCon16 10:41:21 ikourmou: please start :) 10:41:29 thd: if there is a rule (or at least i know there are others that think its annoying) it is easier to ask people to stop 10:41:36 otherwise its maybe just me ;) 10:41:42 ok, thanks for waiting for me! 10:41:59 We have just published the program 10:42:08 http://kohacon2016.lib.auth.gr/?page_id=2417 10:42:33 oops i think i missed the deadline for the final abstract 10:42:40 we have 170 people registered already 10:42:52 #link http://kohacon2016.lib.auth.gr/?page_id=2417 10:43:00 very cool, might be the biggest one so far 10:43:02 We seem to be reaching the venue limits... 10:43:13 how many people can get in? i thought you said ~175? 10:43:16 you might have to account for a few people not showing up - it seems that was some factor in the past 10:43:26 and the registrations deadline is the 22nd of April 10:43:43 yes, it's about 175 10:44:24 will you have a wait list once its full? 10:44:28 a nice "problem" to have! 10:44:32 #info deadline for registrations i April 22nd 10:44:34 there will probably people cancellinhg 10:44:50 *be 10:45:03 or not cancelling - from what i remember in argentina and reno some just didn't show ... so it might be ok to add a little on top 10:45:11 yes, we think that even if 200 people register, we could manage 10:45:14 yeah that is a problem with free events 10:45:28 not everyone will be in all the time 10:45:44 we don't have any particular problems on the preparation side 10:46:01 I think it goes well so far 10:46:14 what are your next actions? 10:46:26 to obvious things seem to be covered 10:46:33 sorry, i need some urgent solution if possible.. i m getting following error, when i try to upload .mrc file to import data in koha......... error: Upload failed -- unable to store file on server 10:46:48 We are going to update the program with abstracts and bios... 10:46:56 as soon as we have them 10:47:04 ikourmou: i still have to send that 10:47:13 will do it today 10:47:22 we are communicating with our sponsors 10:47:27 farooq: sorry, but we are in a meeting 10:47:43 and try to arrange coffee breaks, meals etc 10:47:57 how is the call for sponsors going in general? 10:48:11 did your receive enough funds for the basics yet? or is there a lot missing? 10:48:20 we will probably be able to cover the budget 10:48:26 #info program to be updated with abstracts and bios soon 10:48:42 ok.. sorry for interruption... pls help me to fix it as you come back.. thank you for replying 10:49:08 ikourmou: so things are ok? 10:49:09 and provide coffee breaks / lunch / etc for free 10:49:16 cool 10:49:20 yes! 10:49:22 great 10:49:36 :) 10:50:26 For people travelling from the US, I noted some significantly lower air fares especially on KLM in the last couple of weeks which were not available previously. [Unfortunately, while the price is reasonable for me I cannot now make the schedule commitment for travel but will work on Koha from home.] 10:50:36 is there anything that you want to point out? or comment? 10:51:04 any ideas about the day trip yet? 10:51:29 not something particular, justo thoughts: 10:51:31 and a general thank you to everyone involved in organizing! I 10:52:40 we could visit archaeological sites 10:53:01 or go for a day trip to the sea 10:53:09 or a combination of both 10:53:12 :) 10:53:22 we are open to suggestions though 10:53:43 i noticed there was no feedback mail for registration... but i think all is good anyway? 10:53:51 with places filling up i suddenly start to worry a little :) 10:54:20 yes, we plan to do this: 10:54:42 by the end of next week we will send a mail to everyone registered... 10:54:59 with info about the program... 10:55:27 and asking people who will not be able to make it to Thessaloniki to let us know 10:55:35 sounds good 10:55:39 It's gonna be a week before deadline 10:56:12 #info an info email about the schedule will be send to people registered, also asking to let the organizers know if attending is not possible 10:56:15 that's all from me :-) 10:56:31 thx ikourmou - great update 10:56:36 any more questions? 10:56:52 no. but excited to go :) 10:57:05 looking forward to it :) 10:57:07 yeah me too :) 10:57:31 ok, moving on? 10:57:58 +1 10:58:15 #topic KohaCon17 10:58:32 current proposals can be found here: 10:58:34 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon17_Proposals 10:58:55 currently there are 2 entries 10:59:09 oen from the philippines and one from ireland 10:59:59 is anyone here for the proposals? 11:00:35 i think we can skip the bids until we fix a voting date? 11:00:49 as long as there are no new ones 11:00:51 probably 11:01:02 we could also send another reminder as soon as a deadline has beens et 11:01:04 set 11:01:06 not much going to happen before i guess 11:01:40 Have we decided to exclude a consecutive KohaCon in the same continent? 11:01:44 did we agree on a deadline yet? 11:02:22 cait: i think we did at least vaguely in some past meeting. but i don't remember what it was 11:02:28 me neither 11:02:32 thd: also a good question 11:03:01 ther eis this page 11:03:03 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Conference_Bidding 11:04:19 hm nothing clear there i think, more suggestion 11:04:19 s 11:04:33 gotta run 11:05:01 i think there was some agreement on not having the same continent for 2 years after the con was there 11:05:36 I remember discussing a rule and maybe voting on the principle. 11:06:03 what we coudl do is 11:06:11 - discuss a wording 11:06:18 - add it to vote on the next meeting 11:06:36 Such a rule would need an exception for a case of no bids available to satisfy the rule in a particular year. 11:06:43 true 11:06:53 but it hink with koh agrowing that could be less and less a problem 11:07:05 i would ike to have 2 places to pick from next vote 11:07:11 at least 11:08:05 I am surprised there are not more bids and more repeat bids previously unsuccessful bidders despite the work involved in hosting. 11:08:10 well i always think it's nicer to have a vote :) but there might be cases where it won't happen 11:08:35 s/previously/from previously/ 11:09:09 would someone volunteer to write something up for the next agenda? 11:09:15 or how shoudl we handle this? 11:10:02 I will try to form a coherent statement for the agenda. 11:10:09 thx htd 11:10:40 #action thd to add a coherent statement for the next agenda with the option to have the vote then on 'content rotation' 11:10:49 moving on? 11:10:55 is there someone around from the international fund? 11:11:03 hey 11:11:25 hm? 11:11:32 i wanted to give people a small homework 11:11:39 regarding voting options 11:11:46 or that will never be started 11:11:56 ok 11:12:02 there are four basic options that i tried to outline in the wiki, based on our disussion at the last vote. it would be good to move this forward slowly without using much meeting time today. so… 11:12:11 i propose everyone _reads_ in the wiki (link following) about the four options until next meeting and we _decide_ if we want to have seperate "maybe" and "no" options next time. that still leaves room to add more elaborated voting options if anyone feels like it, but we slowly start working on it. does that make sense? 11:12:42 A discussion on the mailing list has not happened yet. 11:13:13 then reading that is a good start i guess? 11:13:36 I may not start that discussion but I will try to find it if someone else starts the discussion. 11:13:54 they look like good starting options to me, to get the ball rolling 11:14:08 #action everyone: homework: read the four options for counting kohacon votes at https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Processes_for_KohaCons#Counting_votes 11:14:16 #action everyone: make up your mind if you want to have the option to choose between "maybe" and "no" (options 2 and 4). discuss on the mailinglist before if you like 11:14:19 i had the action all typed out... 11:14:22 #info we will write a test about that next time 11:14:30 lol 11:14:32 i did too 11:14:35 :P 11:14:49 moving on ok now? 11:14:51 yep 11:14:52 Evaluation of the relative merits of voting options requires more than merely reading the options. 11:15:10 #topic International Koha Fund - Draft Rules for THT Grants Committee 11:15:27 Some of those options are especially vulnerable to strategic voting. 11:15:28 thd: anything that has to happen _before_ reading it? 11:15:29 #info scheduled to be discussed today and voted on next meeting 11:15:38 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising 11:15:56 thd: if no, i would still see this as the starting point, otherwise we will do nothing 11:16:08 drojf++ 11:16:09 I actually did my homework there and have some comments - but i can send them as an email if people want to 11:16:36 nobody around? 11:16:52 doesn't seem like it :( 11:16:56 i think we were to discuss today and vote next meeting? 11:17:05 yes, what i said above 11:17:26 i'd like to hear the comments, but we lack a discussion partner taht is involved in the process then 11:17:35 i can be quick 11:17:48 1e Any one library, organisation or company (including a Listed Koha Support Company) may have only one principal, employee or contractor serve on the Committee at any given time. 11:17:57 i had to look up some of the words, so i hope i understood i all right 11:18:02 in this one i wonder about contractor 11:18:13 because the koha support companies and libraries contract /subcontract... 11:18:18 the definition is not clear to me 11:19:26 good point 11:19:26 I know! The blade went right through that child! 11:19:42 that should probably be defined in a clear way 11:20:21 in 3a it mentions 'proposals are invited in the current quarter' but the meetings are 'at least 2 times per year' - maybe a mismatch from a change at some point? 11:21:23 good catch. seems to me like a revision error too 11:21:30 hm and in 3j is a reference to 3h that should be 3i - so that#s more of a typo 11:22:03 i think also an error that came from adding another paragraph in between 11:22:58 so i think the most debatable comment i have is about 'contractor' definition 11:23:14 becuase would that mean a library and it's support company can not have a representative at the same timeß 11:23:24 this is how i understand it 11:23:27 or if one company uses development from another - woudl that be a contractor etc 11:23:39 which means a library with several contractors could keep everyone out of it :P 11:23:44 it might be on purpose or a bad pick as a term in the koha context :) 11:23:52 nice trick heh 11:24:20 does anyone want to add something? 11:24:35 Would the conflict of interest rule against lobbying prevent people from advocating outside of deliberations for some reasonable idea? Would some qualification of what is meant by lobbying be better? 11:24:57 sorry, not sure i udnerstand 11:26:06 If a particular party has an interest in some outcome in which they may have an interest and would be necessarily barred from discussion and voting ... 11:26:39 is that 3? Whenever a member has a financial or personal interest in any matter coming before the Committee, the affected person shall a) fully disclose the nature of the interest and b) withdraw from discussion, lobbying, and voting on the matter unless a majority of disinterested members vote that it is in the best interest of the Fund to allow it. The minutes of meetings at which such votes are taken shall record such disclosures, abstentions or rational 11:27:07 i think they left an option there with the majority of disinterested members 11:27:08 should the same party also be barred from giving information advocating the merits of the idea. 11:27:23 Yes article 3. 11:27:54 hm there is also 2e: 11:27:54 2e Any member of the Committee who may receive financial benefit if a proposal is accepted must recuse themselves from voting on that proposal. Furthermore, they may receive no more opportunity to advocate for that proposal than any other proposer. 11:28:26 maybe there is a slight mismatch there between not receiving more time than others and 'withdraw totally' ? 11:28:31 2e clarifies. Thank you cait. ;) 11:29:39 cait: thd: since nobody is available of the people in charge, would you send the concerns to the list? if we are supposed to vote in may we have to talk about it before. or do we wait for the committee to start a discussion on the list? 11:29:50 (which i guess won't happen) 11:30:02 #action Koha Fund Fundraising Committee members - review full logs for discussion of the proposed document 11:30:03 Withdraw totally should conflict with 2e. Maybe that could be explicitly stated to not be the case in 3. 11:30:38 drojf: i can send a link to the discussion here 11:30:52 excellent idea 11:31:27 @action cait to send a link to the fundraising discussion to the list 11:31:27 cait: I suck 11:31:34 #action cait to send a link to the fundraising discussion to the list 11:31:46 i'd like to skip the next topic for today 11:31:49 an dmove on to setting a new date 11:31:51 what is that? 11:31:51 i think that is the bueaty of the plugins :) 11:32:09 the brainstorming? 11:32:10 brainstomring about sign offs 11:32:15 personally, i doubt that there will ever be much brainstorming about this at the end of a general irc meeting. i propose to either move this to one of the mailing lists or form a group of people that try to come up with ideas outside of the meeting 11:32:52 my brain is not storming after 1,5 to 2 hours of meeting, how about yours? 11:32:56 will you send an email to the mailing list? 11:33:07 yeah, the meetings tend to get a little too long recently 11:33:09 the big one or the debv one? 11:33:18 #topic Brainstorming about sign-offs 11:33:21 i'd say dev 11:33:43 #info drojf to send an email to the mailing lists to move discussion there 11:33:47 i can send an email 11:33:58 hey i had not volunteered yet :P 11:34:08 #info will be removed from next meeting's agenda, until someone wants to add it back for discussing some concrete ideas 11:34:12 too late 11:34:21 #topic Next meeting 11:34:45 Wednesday, 4th May? 11:34:49 how does 4 may 2016 sound? time was 10 UTC today, would be… 20 UTC next time? 11:34:57 +1 11:35:09 +1 11:35:10 heh 11:35:14 +1 11:35:21 4th May sounds good (April 10:00 UTC, March 20:00 UTC, February 10:00 UTC ) 11:35:38 #agreed Next meeting will be 4 May 2016, 20 UTC 11:35:39 thx :) 11:35:46 thx everyone for attending! 11:35:47 +1 11:35:53 #endmeeting