20:01:24 #startmeeting General IRC Meeting, 2 November 2016 20:01:24 Meeting started Wed Nov 2 20:01:24 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:01:24 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 20:01:24 The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting__2_november_2016' 20:01:32 #topic Introductions 20:01:32 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 20:01:43 Please introduce yourself following wahanui's example 20:01:57 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_2_November_2016 Today's agenda 20:02:09 #info Jonathan Druart 20:02:14 #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany 20:02:16 #info bag Brendan Gallagher ByWater 20:02:22 #info Nate Curulla, ByWater Solutions 20:02:22 * drojf might fall asleep during the meeting 20:02:25 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 20:02:27 #info Dimitris Antonakis, Athens, Greece 20:02:28 sorry in advance 20:02:33 #info Michael Kuhn, Switzerland 20:02:35 #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Córdoba, Argentina 20:02:38 #info Bob Birchall, Calyx, Sydney 20:02:40 #info Claire Gravely, BSZ, Germany 20:02:43 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 20:03:21 #info Josef Moravec, Municipal Library Usti nad Orlici, Czech Republic 20:03:29 waiting a little bit longer 20:03:49 hi 20:04:06 Hi josef_moravec, good to see you here :) 20:04:20 #info Tomás Cohen Arazi, Theke 20:04:24 * cait waves 20:04:30 HI Jonathan ;) 20:04:34 And all ;) 20:04:41 hi thd 20:05:03 Hello tcohen 20:06:10 ok, moving on! 20:06:13 #info Irma CALYX, Sydney AU 20:06:22 #info Announcements 20:06:26 any announcements? 20:06:31 sec 20:06:35 #topic Announcements 20:06:38 so, better 20:06:42 Yes. 20:07:16 #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre 20:07:33 I would like to announce that after 2 years of helping a friend avoid eviction I will have time for Koha again from February. 20:07:54 great we will expect all THE things then ;) 20:07:58 #info Kyle Hall, ByWater Solutions 20:07:59 heh 20:08:19 #info Petter Goksøyr Åsen, Oslo public library 20:08:28 #info Barton Chittenden, ByWater Solutions 20:08:29 ok, somehting else? 20:08:33 The judge said effectively that books are legal in New York City which my friend's landlord had argued against as combustible. 20:08:33 otherwise moving on - lots on the agenda today :) 20:08:51 #topic Update on releases 20:09:17 agenda? 20:09:17 hmmm... agenda is a wiki 20:09:30 tcohen: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_2_November_2016 20:10:05 bag? 20:10:57 yes 20:11:09 update on release ;) 20:11:16 going well - dates are out there - iirc we’ve entered the slush 20:11:30 khall_away: anything to add here? 20:11:32 #info 16.11 has entered feature slush 20:11:39 I'd like to mention Jenkins 20:11:40 Not that I can think of 20:11:48 it's been having problems 20:11:56 to connect to the nodes 20:11:58 tcohen: the floor is yours 20:12:14 and is probably one of the reasons some failing tests were not highlighted properly 20:12:22 i'm sorry for that 20:12:33 I'm talking to Laurent (from Biblibre) 20:12:34 something to #info? 20:12:38 about alternatives to fix it 20:13:00 #info Jenkins is having some problems connecting to the nodes, tcohen is working on it with Laurent 20:13:15 (bugs 17537-40 fixes somes tests) 20:13:19 #info Jenkins is having issues and tcohen is working on that, a temporary server has been set and tcohen will post to the list, so people notice the failing tests 20:13:40 cait: you type way faster than me LOL 20:13:47 ;) 20:13:54 Hello 20:13:54 hello, JesseM 20:14:23 preparing to change topic :) 20:14:32 #topic Elections 20:14:36 #info Jesse Maseto - ByWater Solutions 20:14:45 #info Chris Cormack - Catalyst 20:15:29 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_17.05 Roles for 17.05 20:15:30 Laurent is on vacations this week, he will come back monday 20:15:55 the page has filled up the last few days and we have candidates for most of the roles 20:15:57 fridolin: thanks 20:16:31 before we start voting, are there questions to the candidates, about the roles or whatever that we should discuss before elections? 20:16:49 I would like to add Joubu to the RM as a back-up (alternate) for pushing code that ByWater has authored 20:17:21 does that sound acceptable? 20:17:38 indeed 20:17:47 * tcohen doesn't trust him that much 20:18:07 Lol 20:18:17 :D 20:18:29 me neither, but... ok 20:18:31 :) 20:18:44 I think it may be good to have author + push from different companies 20:18:52 agreed 20:19:00 Completely 20:19:01 yep 20:19:05 at the beginning I asked for push access to fix small things 20:19:07 I think the bigger the team, the more collisions there can be 20:19:18 but I think you can manage it 20:19:24 or to fix timezone incompatibilities 20:19:28 if it means something... 20:19:54 one thing id like to bring up, wrt RMaints 20:19:58 +1 from me 20:20:12 can we please go back to no enhancements being backported 20:20:25 (or refactoring) 20:20:30 +1 20:20:34 we've had a few too many bugs in the stable releases 20:20:38 rangi: that's my plan 20:20:41 cool 20:20:44 and i built every single package twice 20:20:47 not doing that again 20:20:48 yeah 20:21:00 i will try to be careful and check with devs when not sure about something 20:21:10 refactoring indeed is useless for stable branches 20:21:13 yep 20:21:27 basically you 'just' need to check the status and the dependencies 20:21:35 if it's a enh or ft, don't push it 20:21:41 sometimes some patches are defined as enhancements but may be considered as bug 20:21:49 the caching refactoring was a special case 20:21:50 if it depends on an enh or ft not in stable branches, don't push it 20:22:09 basicaly I'm ok 20:22:23 I think if we need dependencies for a bug fix we can take a closer look - if pushing them is better than having to write a different bug fix patch 20:22:25 there may be some exceptions but mainly branch must be "stable" 20:22:47 i wouldn't have backported those, but I understand it was the rmaints call 20:23:07 yeah 20:23:27 thats all I wanted to bring up anyway 20:23:34 also some real small enh might be good to have - as frido said, sometimes it's a bit of a grey area with bug or not 20:24:06 RMaint is a real job ;) 20:25:27 #info Eugene Espinoza Philippines 20:26:51 contineu with voting? 20:27:04 bag: can you please add Joubu to the wiki? 20:27:15 or Joubu can you? 20:27:48 I have already added myself as a Module Maintainer actually 20:28:00 not sure what I should do now :) 20:28:04 let's vote from top to bottom 20:28:06 ah ok, just missed that 20:28:37 #info Liz Rea, Catalyst IT NZ (sorry to be late) 20:28:46 ok, i am going to cheat and just list the role, names and then options - not phrasing it as a real question, but the bot forces me to write ? 20:29:02 I think Kyle is able to push patches from ByWater if SO+QA is different from ByWater 20:29:08 #startvote: Release Manager: Kyle Hall, Brendan Gallagher? yes, no, abstain 20:29:09 Begin voting on: : Release Manager: Kyle Hall, Brendan Gallagher? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:29:09 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:29:28 #vote yes 20:29:31 #vote yes 20:29:34 #vote yes 20:29:35 #vote yes 20:29:36 #vote yes 20:29:42 #vote yes 20:29:43 #vote yes 20:29:44 #vote yes 20:29:46 #vote yes 20:29:49 #vote yes 20:29:49 #vote yes 20:29:59 #vote yes 20:29:59 #vote yes 20:30:01 #vote yes 20:30:17 #vote yes 20:30:22 #vote yes 20:30:36 #vote yes 20:30:38 we will communicate with Joubu and ask him to push ones where we want a different “company” eyes on the patch 20:31:04 closing vote 20:31:05 #endvote 20:31:06 Voted on ": Release Manager: Kyle Hall, Brendan Gallagher?" Results are 20:31:06 yes (17): LibraryClaire, Joubu, cait, JesseM, josef_moravec, schnydszch, NateC, BobB, fridolin, wizzyrea, tcohen, MKuhn, thd, drojf, d_antonakis, rangi, bgkriegel 20:31:19 #agreed Release Manager: Kyle Hall and Brendan Gallagher 20:31:50 is someone against group voting the ones with more than one name listed? 20:31:55 like voting for all the maints together? 20:32:07 nope 20:32:09 not against that idea 20:32:10 nope 20:32:29 #startvote Release Maintainers: Katrin Fischer (16.11), Mason James (16.05), Julian Maurice (3.22) 20:32:29 Unable to parse vote topic and options. 20:32:34 sorry 20:32:35 wait 20:32:44 #startvote Release Maintainers: Katrin Fischer (16.11), Mason James (16.05), Julian Maurice (3.22)? yes, no, abstain 20:32:44 Begin voting on: Release Maintainers: Katrin Fischer (16.11), Mason James (16.05), Julian Maurice (3.22)? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:32:44 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:32:48 cait? 20:32:48 i think cait is the best friend you could ever have. 20:32:57 #vote yes 20:32:58 #vote yes 20:32:59 #vote yes 20:33:00 #vote yes 20:33:00 #vote yes 20:33:04 #vote yes 20:33:04 #vote yes 20:33:05 #vote yes 20:33:11 #vote yes 20:33:13 #vote yes 20:33:15 #vote yes 20:33:16 #vote yes 20:33:18 #vote yes 20:33:20 #vote yes 20:33:20 #vote yes 20:33:21 #vote yes 20:33:21 #vote yes 20:33:29 #vote yes 20:34:35 ending vote 20:34:39 #endvote 20:34:39 Voted on "Release Maintainers: Katrin Fischer (16.11), Mason James (16.05), Julian Maurice (3.22)?" Results are 20:34:39 yes (18): Joubu, LibraryClaire, wizzyrea, petter, JesseM, josef_moravec, schnydszch, NateC, drojf, bag, fridolin, tcohen, d_antonakis, thd, khall_away, MKuhn, rangi, bgkriegel 20:34:48 #agreed Release Maintainers: Katrin Fischer (16.11), Mason James (16.05), Julian Maurice (3.22) 20:35:14 sorry, went to get breakfast and missed that one :) 20:35:31 #startvote Module Maintainer: Jonathan Druart - Architecture, internals and plumbing, including privilege to push to master, working with RMs 20:35:31 Unable to parse vote topic and options. 20:35:34 gr. 20:35:35 sec again 20:35:48 Module Maintainer: Jonathan Druart - Architecture, internals and plumbing, including privilege to push to master, working with RMs? yes, no, abstain 20:35:59 #startvote Module Maintainer: Jonathan Druart - Architecture, internals and plumbing, including privilege to push to master, working with RMs? yes, no, abstain 20:35:59 Begin voting on: Module Maintainer: Jonathan Druart - Architecture, internals and plumbing, including privilege to push to master, working with RMs? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:35:59 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:35:59 you missed startvote 20:36:05 #vote yes 20:36:11 #vote yes 20:36:12 #vote yes 20:36:12 #vote yes 20:36:13 #vote yes 20:36:13 sorry, i will get the hang of it hopefully soon 20:36:14 #vote yes 20:36:15 #vote yes 20:36:15 #vote yes 20:36:16 #vote yes 20:36:17 #vote yes 20:36:22 #vote yes 20:36:23 #vote yes 20:36:26 #vote yes 20:36:32 #vote yes 20:36:33 #vote yes 20:36:39 #vote yes 20:37:11 closing vote 20:37:21 #vote yes 20:37:23 #endvote 20:37:23 Voted on "Module Maintainer: Jonathan Druart - Architecture, internals and plumbing, including privilege to push to master, working with RMs?" Results are 20:37:23 yes (17): LibraryClaire, cait, JesseM, josef_moravec, khall_away, barton, BobB, bag, wizzyrea, NateC, tcohen, fridolin, MKuhn, thd, drojf, rangi, bgkriegel 20:37:42 #agreed Module Maintainer: Jonathan Druart - Architecture, internals and plumbing, including privilege to push to master, working with RMs 20:37:58 #startvote Translation Manager: Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel? yes, no, abstain 20:37:58 Begin voting on: Translation Manager: Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:37:58 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:38:01 #vote yes 20:38:04 #vote yes 20:38:05 #vote yes 20:38:07 #vote yes 20:38:07 #vote yes 20:38:08 #vote yes 20:38:08 #vote yes 20:38:11 #vote yes 20:38:11 sorry, went to get breakfast and missed that one :) 20:38:11 #vote yes 20:38:14 #vote yes 20:38:17 #vote yes 20:38:17 #vote yes 20:38:20 #vote yes 20:38:20 dam 20:38:25 #vote yes 20:38:27 #vote yes 20:38:28 #vote yes 20:38:32 2 breakfasts in a row! 20:38:34 #vote yes 20:38:42 #vote yes 20:38:44 Ha! 20:38:58 :) 20:39:09 ending vote... 20:39:15 #endvote 20:39:15 Voted on "Translation Manager: Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel?" Results are 20:39:15 yes (18): Joubu, LibraryClaire, wizzyrea, JesseM, josef_moravec, schnydszch, NateC, barton, BobB, bag, cait, tcohen, d_antonakis, thd, drojf, MKuhn, rangi, khall_away 20:39:25 #agreed Translation Manager: Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel 20:39:28 Isn't it possible to say yes only once for all the votings, saving time? 20:39:29 bgkriegel++ 20:39:35 bgkriegel++ indeed :) 20:39:37 :) 20:40:05 #startvote Documentation Manager: Chris Cormack, David Nind? (yes, no, abstain) 20:40:05 Begin voting on: Documentation Manager: Chris Cormack, David Nind? Valid vote options are , yes, no, abstain, . 20:40:05 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:40:14 #vote yes 20:40:19 #vote yes 20:40:21 #vote yes 20:40:21 #vote yes 20:40:22 #vote yes 20:40:23 #vote yes 20:40:24 #vote yes 20:40:25 #vote yes 20:40:28 #vote yes 20:40:28 #vote yes 20:40:29 #vote yes 20:40:31 #vote yes 20:40:34 #vote yes 20:40:34 #vote yes 20:40:38 #vote yes 20:40:43 #vote yes 20:40:43 #vote yes 20:40:59 #vote yes 20:41:01 #vote yes 20:41:14 closing vote 20:41:18 #endvote 20:41:18 Voted on "Documentation Manager: Chris Cormack, David Nind?" Results are 20:41:18 yes (19): LibraryClaire, JesseM, bgkriegel, wizzyrea, khall_away, josef_moravec, NateC, Joubu, barton, BobB, bag, cait, tcohen, MKuhn, thd, drojf, d_antonakis, rangi, schnydszch 20:41:22 Wow how long since that role has changed?!? 20:41:27 #agreed Documentation Manager: Chris Cormack, David Nind 20:41:47 #startvote Database Documentation Manager: David Nind 20:41:47 Unable to parse vote topic and options. 20:41:50 gr. 20:42:00 nengard++ 20:42:06 #startvote Database Documentation Manager: David Nind? yes, no, abstain 20:42:06 Begin voting on: Database Documentation Manager: David Nind? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:42:06 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:42:07 and 20:42:09 #vote yes 20:42:11 rangi++ 20:42:12 #vote yes 20:42:13 #vote yes 20:42:15 #vote yes 20:42:16 #vote yes 20:42:17 #vote yes 20:42:17 #vote yes 20:42:17 #vote yes 20:42:18 #vote yes 20:42:18 #vote yes 20:42:18 #vote yes 20:42:19 rangi++ 20:42:20 #vote yes 20:42:21 #vote yes 20:42:22 #vote yes 20:42:24 #vote yes 20:42:24 #vote yes 20:42:24 #vote yes 20:42:25 #vote yes 20:42:26 wow 20:42:27 2 breakfasts in a row! 20:42:27 ) 20:42:27 ;) 20:42:36 #vote yes 20:42:37 lots of voters tonight! 20:42:38 i agree with MKuhn 20:42:48 for next time, can we just vote on everything ;-) 20:42:49 #vote yes 20:42:57 where is the ufn in that :P 20:43:01 #vote yes 20:43:02 we are almost done, too late to complain 20:43:08 it’s elevenses for BobB but he’s more an elf than a hobbit 20:43:22 mmm 2nd breakfast. 20:43:29 no rangi, you have to stay and vote for everything! 20:43:40 one by one 20:43:53 I like that, a lot 20:43:54 #endvote 20:43:54 Voted on "Database Documentation Manager: David Nind?" Results are 20:43:54 yes (21): Joubu, JesseM, LibraryClaire, cait, petter, khall_away, josef_moravec, schnydszch, NateC, barton, BobB, wizzyrea, bag, fridolin, tcohen, MKuhn, thd, drojf, d_antonakis, rangi, bgkriegel 20:43:56 #startvote QA Team: Martin Renvoize, Marcel de Rooy, Nick Clemens, Tomas Cohen Arazi, Kyle Hall, Jonathan Druart, Fridolin Somers, Julian Maurice? yes, no, abstain 20:43:56 Begin voting on: QA Team: Martin Renvoize, Marcel de Rooy, Nick Clemens, Tomas Cohen Arazi, Kyle Hall, Jonathan Druart, Fridolin Somers, Julian Maurice? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:43:56 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:44:05 #vote yes 20:44:06 #vote yes 20:44:06 #vote yes 20:44:07 #vote yes 20:44:07 #vote yes 20:44:08 #vote yes 20:44:08 #agreed Database Documentation Manager: David Nind 20:44:08 #vote yes 20:44:08 #vote yes 20:44:11 #vote ves 20:44:11 cait: ves is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no, abstain. 20:44:12 #vote yes 20:44:13 #vote yes 20:44:18 #vote yes 20:44:22 #vote yes 20:44:23 #vote yes 20:44:24 #vote yes 20:44:25 #vote yes 20:44:28 #vote yes 20:44:45 #vote yes 20:44:50 #vote yes # not for myself heh 20:44:50 Joubu: yes # not for myself heh is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no, abstain. 20:45:06 nice try, now vote for yourself 20:45:07 ending vote 20:45:15 #vote yes 20:45:18 Katrin Fischer 20:45:18 #endvote 20:45:18 Voted on "QA Team: Martin Renvoize, Marcel de Rooy, Nick Clemens, Tomas Cohen Arazi, Kyle Hall, Jonathan Druart, Fridolin Somers, Julian Maurice?" Results are 20:45:18 yes (18): LibraryClaire, Joubu, wizzyrea, petter, JesseM, josef_moravec, NateC, barton, BobB, cait, bgkriegel, tcohen, MKuhn, thd, drojf, d_antonakis, rangi, schnydszch 20:45:27 bag? 20:45:31 sorry 20:45:34 whouuu I'm in 20:45:37 #agreed QA Team: Martin Renvoize, Marcel de Rooy, Nick Clemens, Tomas Cohen Arazi, Kyle Hall, Jonathan Druart, Fridolin Somers, Julian Maurice 20:45:42 congrats QA team :) 20:45:45 that was supposed to be #vote yes 20:46:18 #agreed QA Team: Martin Renvoize, Marcel de Rooy, Nick Clemens, Tomas Cohen Arazi, Kyle Hall, Jonathan Druart, Fridolin Somers, Julian Maurice 20:46:26 with all of these QAers, QA queue cannot be above 10 20:46:27 hm, doubled up 20:46:33 khall will be busy 20:46:34 someone else should chair next time 20:46:51 ok 20:46:58 do you want to summary vote the next roles? 20:47:03 #vote yes 20:47:06 or otherwise... is someone against it? 20:47:23 i wanted to abstain 20:47:34 but hey, I support the summary vote too 20:48:45 #startvote Packaging Manager: Mirko Tietgen, Continuous integration infrastructure maintainer (what a role name!): Tomas Cohen Arazi, Bug Wranglers: Indranil Das Gupta, Marc Véron 20:48:45 Unable to parse vote topic and options. 20:48:47 ok 20:48:49 messed up again 20:48:54 Can we start again and do a summary vote of everything ? :) 20:49:06 #startvote Packaging Manager: Mirko Tietgen, Continuous integration infrastructure maintainer (what a role name!): Tomas Cohen Arazi, Bug Wranglers: Indranil Das Gupta, Marc Véron? yes, no, abstain 20:49:06 Begin voting on: Packaging Manager: Mirko Tietgen, Continuous integration infrastructure maintainer (what a role name!): Tomas Cohen Arazi, Bug Wranglers: Indranil Das Gupta, Marc Véron? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:49:06 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:49:15 #vote yes 20:49:16 #vote yes 20:49:17 #vote yes 20:49:17 #vote yes 20:49:17 #vote yes 20:49:18 #vote yes 20:49:18 #vote yes 20:49:20 #vote yes 20:49:21 #vote yes 20:49:21 #vote yes 20:49:24 #vote yes 20:49:25 #yes 20:49:29 #vote yes 20:49:32 #vote yes 20:49:34 #vote yes 20:49:34 i think having discussions now won't make it faster now 20:49:39 #vote yes 20:49:55 #vote yes 20:50:05 closing vote! 20:50:08 #endvote 20:50:08 Voted on "Packaging Manager: Mirko Tietgen, Continuous integration infrastructure maintainer (what a role name!): Tomas Cohen Arazi, Bug Wranglers: Indranil Das Gupta, Marc Véron?" Results are 20:50:08 yes (16): LibraryClaire, Joubu, cait, JesseM, josef_moravec, drojf, barton, BobB, bag, fridolin, bgkriegel, d_antonakis, thd, wizzyrea, MKuhn, tcohen 20:50:19 #agreed Packaging Manager: Mirko Tietgen, Continuous integration infrastructure maintainer (what a role name!): Tomas Cohen Arazi, Bug Wranglers: Indranil Das Gupta, Marc Véron 20:50:24 i have a question about the last one 20:50:49 indranil, Brooke and David haven't added themselves 20:50:55 have you been in contact with them? 20:51:41 Indeed, however, I think indrag is OK with inclusion but everyone listed is merely an implied volunteer. 20:52:04 It is really the support for the proposal which I am seeking. 20:52:15 Anyone can join in. 20:52:25 Is it the same proposal as the one for 3.20, 3.22, 16.05 and 16.11? 20:53:04 Yes, unfortunately all my tame was taken helping my elderly friend avoid eviction for 2 years. 20:53:12 That is now thankfully over. 20:53:28 s/tame/time/ 20:53:48 congrats thd, awesome achievement 20:54:13 i ẃas wondering, can we separate the wiki from the release team? it has not really a connection to release cycle. and you plan to start in february, while release cycle is november to may. its an ongoing task like website etc, we dont have roles for that either 20:54:37 yes, congrats. It's good news 20:54:40 it would be great to have a team of wiki maintainers, but maybe we just elect thd now and add the others when they consent? 20:55:09 It was added to the roles in the past so I re-added this time. 20:55:09 sounds good to me BobB 20:55:51 I take droif's point too 20:56:04 but its a role we really need 20:56:13 I had meant merely to indicate that others were willing but the category was missing and might not have put themselves forward without the category. 20:56:26 yep 20:56:58 +1 for the role. 20:56:59 we certainly need it and i welcome everyone working on it, i just dont see the connection to the releases 20:57:20 moving on? 20:57:25 i gots work to do :-) 20:57:30 :) 20:57:55 voting ofr thd now as BobB suggested 20:58:28 #startvote Wiki curator: Thomas Dukleth? yes, no, abstain 20:58:28 Begin voting on: Wiki curator: Thomas Dukleth? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. 20:58:28 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:58:40 #vote yes 20:58:47 #vote yes 20:58:49 #vote yes 20:58:58 #vote yes 20:59:15 #vote yes 20:59:16 #vote yes 20:59:18 #vote yes 20:59:27 #vote yes 20:59:30 #vote yes 20:59:39 #vote yes 20:59:47 #vote yes 21:00:06 closing vote 21:00:09 #endvote 21:00:09 Voted on "Wiki curator: Thomas Dukleth?" Results are 21:00:09 yes (11): wizzyrea, khall_away, josef_moravec, NateC, BobB, bag, tcohen, MKuhn, thd, rangi, bgkriegel 21:00:11 #vote yes 21:00:18 arg 21:00:27 #agreed Wiki curator: Thomas Dukleth 21:00:31 changing topic? 21:00:33 Heh 21:00:41 ah, I looked away, and... oops, breakfast. 21:00:45 #vote yes 21:00:52 Lol 21:00:54 moving on 21:00:59 that’s 3rd breakfast or second lunch barton 21:00:59 #topic KohaCon 21:01:10 schnydszch? 21:01:10 schnydszch is it June 12-16 Monday - Friday? 21:01:16 1st dinner, bag. 21:01:26 June 13 to 16 21:01:29 Second dinner is best 21:01:50 Tuesday to saturday 21:01:56 or 13 to 17? 21:01:56 8.65041591938134e+18 21:02:06 June 13 to 17 sorry 21:02:13 cool 21:02:26 June 12 is independence day in the Philippines 21:03:27 * tcohen1 just kicked that wifi router 21:03:52 Thanks by the way to the 10 people who already preregistered. We hope that those even 1% sure going pre-register in the google form 21:04:28 #info dates are June 13 to 17, 12 being independence day in the Philippines 21:04:35 I preregister not to have to pay 100$ if I can come 21:04:40 maybe I should not tell that... 21:05:06 bbias 21:05:37 (I can bargain it if I cannot attend, something like 50$ ;)) 21:05:43 We're trying to negotiate the venue rental hence the fee. The venue rental is Php100,000.00 per day. We will be presenting in the 17th 21:05:58 did we find out why we are breaking the tradition of no fee for kohacon? 21:06:05 Or you can help us in making it free :) 21:06:29 Nigeria charged 150 21:06:51 http://kohacon15.projektlinkkonsult.com/registration/ 21:07:00 schnydszch you need to make a budget for the conference 21:07:11 yep, and that was unpopular and decided not to do it again, it was free again in greece 21:07:20 then when you know how much you need we can work out how to fund it 21:07:36 In the case of Nigeria, that was sadly an issue for safety of the venue location. 21:07:51 and it ended up being safe 21:08:12 Philipinnes has its issues too 21:08:32 We will try to make it free as much as possible. We're waiting for a meeting with the organization registered with the securities and exchange commissi9n of the philippines so we can solicit even local companies 21:08:34 * rangi will bow out, im not planning to attend anyway so others can decide 21:08:37 yes it does - just looked at the usgov state department - and it is not on the no travel list 21:08:56 #info 10 people already preregistered, please register if you plan to attend (link to the form was send to the mailing list) 21:09:26 parts of the country are 'no travel' on the Australian advisory 21:09:39 but the wider problem is an apparent breakdown in the rule of law 21:10:03 I'll be making bookings, but keeping an eye on that situation 21:10:15 You can help us make it free if you can send us figures to be added for the presentation to ayala museum bosses like cost vis-a-vis proprietary 21:10:31 * fridolin saying good night and see u soon 21:10:34 No worries BobB 21:10:42 singapore airlines has very cheap tickets flying from san fransisco 21:10:46 schnydszch: have you sned out a call for sponsors yet? 21:11:59 Not yet cait. After our meeting with the Association of Special Libraries of the Philippines 21:12:52 but the form has a clause if they plan or their company plans on sponsoring 21:13:22 ebsco asked me about sponsorship options 21:13:39 where should i forward that to? (email) 21:13:48 Are they okay with jusf the name of the volunteers first? 21:14:36 i don't know what is interesting for them, you have to talk to them 21:14:57 Please email me eugenegf@yahoo.com. info@onstrike.com.ph info@tulong-aklatan.com.ph 21:15:02 ok 21:16:22 ok, somehting to add? 21:16:25 otherwise moving on :) 21:16:47 as we are runnign late, i'd like to not discuss Kohacon18 this time 21:16:49 By the way, we're also waiting for the result of the gra t proposal from the National Commission for Culture and the Arts 21:16:52 * LibraryClaire says goodnight 21:17:09 Of the Philippines to help us defray expenses. 21:17:36 you need a budget ... then you know how much you need :) 21:18:12 ok, moving on unless somoene stops me fast :) 21:18:16 cait++ 21:18:31 #topic Bugzilla vs. Github/Gitlab 21:18:38 petter: still there? 21:18:38 there is one... but i don't know it 21:18:40 The last time an international conference was held in the Philippines, it was full of locals 21:18:50 i have to run out to a meeting soon, but ill quickly note down my thoughts 21:19:01 not opposed to gitlab (with caveats) 21:19:30 fundamentally opposed to github (i find telling people they should use FOSS and then using proprietary tools to dev it is hypocritical) 21:19:34 schnydszch: I think locals are good actually :) 21:19:47 rangi++ 21:19:51 rangi++ 21:19:52 the caveats are, that with gitlab .. how do we implement our signoff/qa process 21:19:55 Hence the preregistration. Althougb we can say that we won't accept walk-ins, there will always be those who will not follow 21:20:02 it also means people have to register with a service we can't control 21:20:18 Okay that's all for now :) 21:20:29 do we end up with gerrit or some other peer review tool? which is arguably much harder to use than git-bz 21:20:38 those are my thoughts anyway 21:20:47 we can have our own gitlab setup 21:20:49 We want to control.it to 250 or less :) 21:21:27 I don't like gitlab, but we could 21:21:36 schnydszch: sorry, running late today - didn't want to interrupt you 21:21:38 rangi: harder to use but much more efficient for reviews 21:22:10 I'm done already. The floor is yours :) 21:22:12 schnydszh typically KohaCon is mostly local people, with varying numbers of international attendees 21:22:12 Joubu: yep, it does cut down the pool of users signing off tho .. when we need to increase that 21:22:22 locals are good, as someone else said 21:22:33 Noted BobB 21:22:35 Joubu: so I see that as the problem that we need to solve .. maybe there are better tools than gerrit now? 21:22:55 before we consider a switch, i'd like to see how we can handle things in our workflow, i have no experience with gitlab, but adding a quick follow up or rebasing for a new dev should be easy to do 21:23:01 did not find something else when I had a look 21:23:14 To my knowledge Bugzilla has significantly more features which can be customised suitably than any competing bug tracker. I do not know why anyone would want to use something with fewer options to turn to our purpose. 21:23:20 it took years of iteration to get to the process we have now 21:23:27 changing it will require a similar amount of time. 21:23:56 rather, changing it to a point where it is as natural and understood as it is now will take that long. 21:24:23 I'm not opposed to it (though I am opposed to github. full nopetopus.) 21:24:44 I think we need to wait for petter to get the pros :) 21:25:17 its also very important that it be accessible to librarians, not just devs 21:25:49 I personnaly find gitlab slower than bugzilla (maybe because I did not optimize it on my server) 21:27:30 How does gitlab compare to bugzilla in terms of searching for bugs? 21:27:30 #info please refer to full logs for discussion - lots of info there 21:28:31 ... that's my only gripe with bugzilla. 21:29:08 did i miss the part about why we should switch to something else in general? 21:29:18 drojf: i think petter is not here to talk to that 21:29:29 ah ok 21:29:41 hm he was there at the beginning 21:29:45 we might have lost him 21:29:53 we voted too long 21:30:10 barton: i think bugzilla's search is mighty, we just don't use the same terms often for the same things, that's the issue that makes it hard to find stuff :) 21:30:24 in my opinion not a thing that a new tool can solve 21:30:29 I can't argue with that... 21:30:45 maybe the problem is we write bad bug descriptions :-) 21:32:11 i think we have colleced a lot of info 21:32:13 good night, gotta sleep off the flu. don't change all infrastructure until i'm back :P 21:32:14 or opionins 21:32:16 let'smove on? 21:32:27 We improved it a lot, but we can always do better 21:32:52 Maybe we should add some guidance about how to describe a bug better for easier finding. 21:33:15 thd++ 21:34:07 move on 21:34:21 that too. 21:34:34 * rangi has to go to a meeting at the nz treasury dept .. ill try to fix the world economy when im there 21:34:37 bbl 21:34:51 well we’ve got that going for us now ;) 21:35:00 heh. 21:35:14 Next topic? 21:35:14 Next topic is a tricky one... 21:35:25 #topic Support provider registration email list 21:35:29 sorry, got distracted 21:35:52 i am not sure who added that 21:35:59 I did. 21:36:02 we jumped over the marketing one 21:36:24 yeah, that's more important. 21:36:29 coming back tot hat 21:36:40 Ah. Ok. 21:36:44 ah ok :) 21:36:52 barton: can you quickly explain? 21:37:15 so quickly, as I understand it, In India, there's a law that says that support providers 21:37:29 need to register with some governing entity... 21:37:48 so we get a lot of requests added on the Koha mailing list. 21:38:07 (not a law, lots of people put 'must be a registered support provider' in their RFP) 21:38:17 1 we are not and have never been a governing entity. 21:38:20 the longest running Koha supporter 21:38:21 It's an important function, but I think that it lowers the signal to noise ratio. 21:38:22 2 what rangi said 21:38:35 indranil only registered this year, because of that RFP madness 21:38:42 its not a law tho .. just a bad idea 21:38:49 and now i have to get in a taxi ;) 21:38:51 they totally misunderstand what the list is - it gives no credit or endorsement of any kind 21:39:10 i think if we limit to a list 21:39:12 3 i am glad to have the many eyes on them 21:39:14 it will ge tless eyes on it 21:39:20 i don't mind them oing to the main list 21:39:22 right ... anyway, I'd like to move that discussion off the koha mailing list. 21:39:35 oppose that 21:39:54 the subjects should be filterable if you don't want to see them 21:40:37 i think they hsould not be hidden on a separate list to be honest 21:40:41 ^ 21:40:42 they belong in the ocmmunity channel 21:41:11 cait++ ; wizzyrea++ 21:41:38 I clicked on some links once, and almost 1 out 2 does not provide a link to k-c.org or any mentions to Koha 21:42:20 it is an important function that many people check them 21:43:45 India's a problem - more Koha users than anywhere else on the planet and very few contributions to the project (Indra honourably excepted) 21:44:36 a lot of the support providers listed are not active contributors 21:45:03 BUT we do not limit people from being listed based on that 21:45:05 not only from india - but i think that's not something we can do much about it 21:45:11 the only requirements are the ones stated 21:45:19 and if we tried to - what kind of contribution makes it valid? 21:45:24 to get listed 21:45:28 It may be better to maintain a list of active contributors, by company 21:45:30 we aren't going to try to. I'd drop the list first. 21:45:47 (we already almost have it with the dashboard, but only on 1 year) 21:45:58 we also have the git stats 21:46:00 But I agree with joubu, that list could be helpful as a supplement 21:46:08 the list of code contributors 21:46:09 not so pretty, but you can see a lot there if you want to 21:47:11 anyway, next topic? 21:47:16 ok 21:47:31 any action to take her before we move on? 21:47:41 wizzyrea++ 21:47:56 #topic Koha Marketing Group or Committee 21:47:58 wizzyrea++ 21:48:06 last one for today, thx all for being here still :) 21:48:13 handing over to bag 21:48:23 ok I wrote my notes out - so I will just copy and paste 21:48:32 then give everyone a minute to read 21:48:39 I think that we should have a group that is in charge of marketing Koha. 21:48:40 Plenty of ideas here. Spotlight libraries that are using Koha and tell their stores 21:48:42 website content 21:48:43 blogposts 21:48:45 press releases 21:48:46 marketing series on all the great things that Koha already does and has been doing for years (like multi-tenant or webservices) 21:48:48 Something that would help fight FUD ;) 21:48:49 Anyways I was thinking that we start a little group or committee that would be interested in doing that. NateC has volunteered to be the lead on that - get the meetings going - offering a place to host the meeting - so ideas can flow. 21:48:50 Should we do this? And how do we start? Any one here interested in volunteering to help? 21:48:51 Maybe call it the Koha Informations Group 21:49:28 sorry bag I have to run but I am for this initiative 21:49:39 This idea came up at KohaCon14 in Cordoba iirc 21:49:53 yes but we never pulled the trigger BobB 21:50:01 I think NateC is ready for it now :) 21:50:08 its a good idea, if there people to carry it forward 21:50:13 do let me know if you require any things from the website. I've been meaning to do a not-slight overhaul of it anyway 21:50:28 This could also help with the last issue that was discussed, in that contributing companies are spotlighted more so than those that are not by talking about the devs that were added 21:50:48 Ive been ready for this for a long time. We don't have a loud enough voice in the global library community 21:50:51 (nothing drastic, just tidying and adding/removing content) 21:51:17 cool wizzyrea - noted ;) we’ll make sure that any committee or group works with you :) 21:51:18 we certainly can't compete with the funding that ebsco has for their not-at-all-revolutionary thing 21:51:21 good luck at your meeting 21:51:27 ha thanks :) 21:51:57 So should we take this to the mailing lists to look for volunteers? 21:51:58 wizzyrea: correct, but some social media and press and content is much better than none 21:52:09 that sounds like an action for NateC? 21:52:15 Question on place natehas in mind? Virtual or real place? 21:52:22 virtual 21:52:22 i think virtual is available at https://www.virtualbox.org/ 21:53:02 we also discussed this in 'Marseille a bit 21:53:05 most likely zoom or hangouts or something like that - whatever we could agree apon that has a low barrier for participation 21:53:11 maybe we just need to rename a few things :) 21:53:27 Haha 21:53:28 We should be just a little cautious about avoiding the effect of advertising for particular support companies in presenting case studies, etc. 21:53:30 very true cait 21:53:31 basically if I get the blessing from the community I can run with this 21:54:50 so what is the motion here? That we endorse efforts to form a Koha Marketing group? 21:55:08 It seems I can volunteer on this 21:55:15 ok so cait I think the next action - is NateC takes this to the mailing list and asks for volunteers to join in 21:55:20 BobB ^^ 21:55:30 schnydszch: awesome!! 21:55:30 That'll be NOK 10 for the awesome jar, bag 21:55:50 NateC: I also noticed that David Nind said he would join in too with you 21:55:52 #action NateC to take the Marketing Group idea to the mailing list to ask for volunteers 21:55:55 so you’ve got 3 ;) 21:56:18 cait +1 21:56:21 ok am i taking it to the list to create the group, look for volunteers or both? 21:56:39 both sounds good to me 21:56:43 both NateC 21:56:45 yep 21:56:48 ok 21:56:48 i don't think someone will oppose the general idea 21:57:03 until after the fact you mean cait ;) 21:57:07 ha 21:57:18 ok that’s it cait - move on ;) 21:57:22 hehe 21:57:46 two hour meeting, is this a record? 21:57:58 #topic Set date and time for next meeting 21:58:11 Probably! 21:58:17 Joubu: awake still? 21:58:21 Number of items on the agenda may be a record. 21:58:50 December 7? 21:58:57 yeah, lots of info in the logs 21:59:02 ok by me 21:59:17 time? 21:59:17 i think time is like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff. or generously donated to giving support in #koha but if you need more help faster than we can give it try http://koha-community.org/support/paid/ 21:59:31 i was hoping Joubu could help me out with a meeting time suggestion 21:59:36 erk 21:59:38 yes 21:59:39 sec 21:59:50 and i'd like to ask if someone wants to give chairing a try 21:59:58 https://framadate.org/3dAEB8zqQLzzTptD 21:59:59 says 22:00:06 1 or 2 pm is the best 22:00:13 i will probably be around if any help with the bot is required and there is a wiki page now too :) 22:00:16 but it was for dev meetings 22:00:20 2 utc? 22:00:20 2 utc is unfair to europe, not everyone 22:00:21 here joubu, or where you are? 22:00:25 yes 22:00:54 but we will need to find another one to switch with 22:01:01 i think the problem might be not many votes from oz/nz 22:01:33 people can continue to vote :) 22:01:49 2 utc and 14 utc? 22:01:57 or is 12 hours off bad 22:02:02 we're 10 hours ahead of europe now, NZ12 22:02:50 2 UTC had problems of extremely low attendance when we tried for an extended period in rotation. 22:02:55 2 utc is 3am 22:03:02 that's in my black zone 22:03:13 i can get up early... but not that early :) 22:03:16 I said 2pm 22:03:22 not am 22:03:31 we can never solve this, everyone time is bad in either europe, us, or south asia/oceania 22:03:39 Joubu: can you send a tim econverter link? 22:03:40 or you are searching for another one... 22:03:46 is that 14utc then? 22:03:54 https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20161109T14 22:04:29 * bag gives up - will try to attend if the timing isn’t the worst. Will agree to whenevers 22:04:47 NateC: err, I didn't mean that ebsco thing in a challenging way, more in a "sigh they are well funded" way. 22:05:15 consensus at its finiest 22:05:20 like bag said 22:05:27 4am was the start of the meeting for the philippines ;) 22:05:30 i am confused 22:05:30 help 22:05:44 so 7th december 22:05:47 yes 22:05:52 7th 14UTC 22:05:53 whoever volunteers to chair picks the time? ;) 22:05:56 then will see next time 22:06:13 7th 14UTC and Joubu is chair ;) 22:06:15 I am not volunteer to chair, but I picked the time. Half of the work is done :) 22:06:23 :P 22:06:26 #agreed Next meeting will be on December 7, 14 UTC 22:06:37 bag maybe? 22:06:44 ok guys, customers are waiting 22:06:45 #info chair to be decided (TBD) 22:06:49 BobB, How does 14 UTC work for Oceania? 22:07:02 #action all volunteer to chair the next meeting! 22:07:09 BobB: Please fill the pool 22:07:15 it's icky, 3am 22:07:17 wizzyrea: same for you ;) 22:07:25 but eh 22:07:28 its 1 am in Sydney and 3 am in NZ (if I have the world spinning in the right direction) 22:07:29 don't let it stop you I reckon 22:07:41 #action all please vote in the meeting survey to help find good meeting times - https://framadate.org/3dAEB8zqQLzzTptD 22:07:56 ew 22:08:15 still ending now - please try to find consensus on list for times - i am falling asleep :) 22:08:18 12-13 hours off from europe :) 22:08:24 #endmeeting