20:00:50 #startmeeting Koha General IRC Meeting 13 January 2016 20:00:50 Meeting started Wed Jan 13 20:00:50 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:50 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 20:00:50 The meeting name has been set to 'koha_general_irc_meeting_13_january_2016' 20:00:51 :) coffee 20:00:58 Welcome all! 20:01:07 today's agenda is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_13_January_2016 20:01:16 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_13_January_2016 20:01:21 #topic Introductions 20:01:22 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 20:01:35 please introduce yourself like wahanui just did, using #info 20:01:56 #info Jesse Maseto - ByWater, USA 20:01:56 #blou, a bot not quite so sentient 20:01:57 #info Bob Birchall, Calyx, Australia 20:02:03 #info Brendan Gallagher - ByWater Solutions 20:02:04 #info Colin Campbell, ptfs-europe 20:02:04 #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany 20:02:13 #info Philippe Blouin, inLibro 20:02:13 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 20:02:13 #info Kyle Hall, ByWater Solutions 20:02:14 #info Jonathan Druart, UK 20:02:15 #info Heather Braum, NEKLS/NExpress, Lawrence, KS, USA 20:02:20 #info Andreas Hedström Mace, Stockholm University Library 20:02:20 #info Joel Sasse Plum Creek, USA 20:02:34 :) 20:02:37 nice! 20:02:48 #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, NZ 20:03:19 #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville KY USA 20:03:33 ok, let's move on to our first topic for tonight :) 20:03:40 #topic Announcements 20:04:00 anyony any announcements? 20:04:10 #info Christopher Davis, Uintah County Library, Utah, USA 20:04:12 anyone... 20:04:13 anyone is free to organize one at any time :-) 20:04:14 next week is the group work for the academy 20:04:43 please add the keyword Academy in the keyword field to any bugs that you think might be ok for them to look at 20:05:07 #info next week is group work week for the academy at Catalyst IT - please add the academy keyword to any bugs you think would be ok for them to look at 20:05:20 ok = not too hard to fix? 20:05:35 yeah, preferably don't touch the db ;) 20:05:42 :) 20:05:53 anything else? 20:05:54 anything else is just being crap 20:05:59 i got feedback for the pre-kohacon meeting in berlin. there is only one short day now (thursday) 20:06:00 but id rather have more, even if we go, oh thats too hard, than have only a few to pick from 20:06:02 are there currently any that are marked? 20:06:03 if that makes sense 20:06:05 yep 20:06:16 rangi: to signoff, submit a patch or both? 20:06:19 if you do a search in bugs for that keyword, you will find them ;) 20:06:23 Joubu: both please 20:06:24 rumour has it both is best :) 20:06:33 rangi: ok great :) 20:07:00 #info Pre-KohaCon meeting in Berlin has room secured - only one short day now (Thursday) 20:07:27 moving on? 20:07:53 there may be a catmandu workshop 20:07:58 :) 20:08:00 or in greece, depends 20:08:07 :) 20:08:48 moving on! 20:08:50 #topic Update on releases 20:08:57 oh catmandu 20:08:58 it has been said that catmandu is pretty super awesome 20:09:07 jajm, wizzyrea, fredericd? bag? 20:09:35 I have some - should I go first? 20:09:38 i think wizzyrea is still on the bus 20:09:50 yep please start bag 20:09:55 Jenkins (once tcohen is back in the office I will spend sometime with him so we can get master stable again) 20:10:16 I am really interested in XSS patches from Joubu ( needs QA http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13618 ) 20:10:17 04Bug 13618: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Prevent XSS in the Staff Client and the OPAC 20:10:36 qa team that would be awesome if we nudge that along 20:10:49 I am on it, I think it's pretty close now 20:10:56 excellent! 20:10:57 sweet 20:11:13 Change in the wording on the bug (when changing the status to pushed to master). I want to put (Pushed to Master - Should be in the May 2016 release) - any objections? 20:11:13 bag: that doesn't look right 20:11:19 bag: it's a very hard one, cait found bugs when I was sure there were not... 20:11:19 #info Irma, CALYX Sydney : sorry I am late 20:11:39 bag: we will certainly found some others when pushed 20:12:04 yeah Joubu I think there are going to be some - I will be cautious when pushing - but would like that early early in the release cycle :) 20:12:05 but at least if it's pushed not to close to the release, we will have time to get them! 20:12:06 nope 20:12:17 :) 20:12:36 that was nope to bag, no objections to changing the text 20:12:49 not nope to that bag ;-) 20:13:22 bag: yep good idea 20:13:23 cool it was brought to my attention that it was sort of hard to go back a few years and see a message “that was pushed to master” but when? heh 20:13:46 currently my goal is to keep the PQA queue low 20:13:48 dont forget you have the release notes text area now too 20:13:59 when you have it, but you don't know where :) 20:13:59 Patches - it's all fair game now. Anything that is passed QA is a candidate to be pushed 20:14:29 we also Created Elastic Search branch for easy testing. ( http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/new_12478_elasticsearch ) 20:14:40 bug 12478 20:14:41 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12478 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, NEW , Elasticsearch support for Koha 20:14:59 master is quite unstable at the moment, but we have patches in the queue 20:15:16 (I don't have the numbers, sorry) 20:15:19 it’s pretty close to master and I will work on trying to make sure that branch is close to current 20:16:00 yes it’s unstable - I want to work on that in the next couple of weeks. I was waiting for tcohen to come back so I can learn more about Jenkins - then I’m sure we’ll have some spots to attack 20:16:11 would be great to get it stable 20:16:28 Why is the branch called new? 20:16:47 test 20:16:47 it is the same as the one on the catalyst repo, right? 20:16:52 sorry, i lost connection to IRC 20:16:55 reading back now quickly 20:17:10 (rebased I meant) 20:17:11 hmmm something to do with how gmcharlt_ set up the permissions 20:17:35 yes it is the same as the catalyst repo currently 20:17:38 i think you need to get your nick back before you can continue the meeting cait1 20:17:59 hm already exists 20:18:02 we need to kill the othe rcait 20:18:07 we cant 20:18:14 ugh 20:18:17 it needs to timeout/fall off 20:18:22 we can only kick it from the channel 20:18:27 which doesn't actually help 20:18:30 yeah whoops 20:18:31 the nick still exists 20:18:32 :) 20:18:43 you can kill it if you have a password 20:18:52 hm let me try to remember 20:19:11 and +1 for adding the expected version to the RM push notes on bugs 20:19:22 ok back :) 20:19:48 ok that’s really it from me. any questions? 20:19:55 #info XSS patches on bug 13618 should be pushed soon - will have all to look out for bugs 20:19:56 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13618 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Prevent XSS in the Staff Client and the OPAC 20:20:13 i got 2 things i already told while disconnected (noone saw) :) 20:20:14 sec 20:20:29 bug 15358 20:20:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15358 blocker, P1 - high, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , merge.pl does not populate values to merge 20:20:45 yes saw that - it’s a blocker 20:20:46 that's a bad on 20:20:50 bug 6657 20:20:51 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6657 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Making 999 visible in framework duplicates 999 entry and affects index 20:20:58 I’ll ask nick to test that 20:20:59 Are in need for good testing and speedy sign-off please 20:21:08 khall: can you ask nick to take a look at that one? 20:21:18 will do! 20:21:19 so we can get that fixed for the next maintenance releases 20:21:34 hmm maybe both of those khall 20:21:42 authority merge and authority add broken 20:21:44 can do 20:22:01 There is bug 15568 too 20:22:02 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15568 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Circ rules are not displayed anymore 20:22:19 (which is not really major) 20:22:24 on the list 20:22:31 cool 20:23:01 #info please help with good testing and speedy sign off for evil bugs: 15358, 6657 (authorities) and 15568 (admin) 20:23:14 anything else? 20:23:14 hmmm... anything else is just being crap 20:23:29 also I am completely open to anyone that has ideas on promotion of more sign-offers :) 20:23:52 I am working on getting more bywater peeps to do sign-offs (getting the right tools inplace first) 20:24:28 i think one problem is that we have a lot of hard to test things - architecture and internals 20:24:32 bug 15570 affects stable releases 20:24:33 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15570 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , circ/renew.pl is broken 20:24:41 and will be putting an appeal to the librarians that work with bywater 20:25:45 :) 20:26:26 bag: maybe organizing a test day like lyon did could help 20:26:35 helping people to set up sandboxes for bugs they have picked before 20:26:38 cool :) noted 20:27:06 ok, one last thing :) 20:27:15 setting up sandboxes sounds like a good wau to make sign-offs easier 20:27:24 once I am not traveling so much - I’ll be trying some virtual “help” too 20:27:28 I know there's but a video of it would be stellar! 20:27:45 hm a tutorial video is a good idea! 20:28:08 #idea create a tutorial video about setting up a sandbox, testing and signing off with it 20:28:10 nengard has been looking at 'guide on the side' for training/documentation purposes, but I think that we could use it for testing as well 20:28:21 cool I’ll ask nicole to create a video 20:28:31 #idea organize a test day where libraries can pick bugs to test before and help them testing them (setting up sandboxes, fixing conflicts) 20:28:39 +1 for video 20:28:46 a webinar might work too 20:29:01 Please include in the video troubleshooting like symptoms of the wrong database, etc. 20:29:17 FWIW 20:29:24 maybe we could add an faq section to the wiki page 20:29:28 good idea tubaclarinet. 20:29:29 about problems 20:29:39 if you see... ... that did not work, because... 20:29:54 faq section = :-) 20:30:11 some other thing I'd like to get done - ashimema has volunteered to join the QA team again (yay!) - so i'd like to do a quick vote to see if we can make this happen :) 20:30:36 +1 20:30:37 #startvote Are you ok with ashimema joining the QA team for 3.24? (yes,no) 20:30:37 Begin voting on: Are you ok with ashimema joining the QA team for 3.24? Valid vote options are , yes, no, . 20:30:37 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 20:30:52 #vote yes 20:30:57 #vote yes 20:31:00 #vote yes 20:31:02 #vote yes 20:31:05 #vote yes 20:31:05 #vote yes 20:31:11 #vote yes 20:31:12 #vote yes 20:31:19 #vote yes 20:31:32 #vote Yes 20:31:53 ending vote... 20:32:02 #endvote 20:32:02 Voted on "Are you ok with ashimema joining the QA team for 3.24?" Results are 20:32:02 yes (10): Joubu, davidnind, cait, jmsasse, barton, BobB, khall, bag, hbraum, drojf 20:32:03 #vote yes 20:32:15 #vore yes 20:32:22 ah, damn, to late 20:32:35 and misspelled. =) 20:32:53 #agreed Martin Renvoize joins the QA team for 3.24 - 12 yes votes 20:33:01 moving on to the next? 20:33:02 nice 20:33:15 #topic Comments on Circ Rules Revamp 20:33:35 khall ^^^ 20:33:44 #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Circulation_Rules_Interface_and_Backend_Revamp_RFC 20:34:10 We'd really like to nail down any issues with the circ rules revamp if there are any 20:34:24 anyone who is interested please read the rfc 20:34:36 if you've already read it and have any questions now, I'm here to field them 20:34:53 rfc = request for comment? 20:35:00 yes 20:35:09 I think this is very important in the long term as our movement to increasing amounts of circ rules has maid the current interface untenable 20:35:15 I think i am slightly in favour of a more table like thing ot be honest 20:35:22 but that's me 20:35:43 #info Indranil Das Gupta, India. 20:35:49 cait: we already have a table like thing ; ) The primary goal is to move to a more flexible approach that allows for simpler rule sets 20:35:56 I'd like something where I can easily compare rules for different itemtypes or different categories 20:35:59 this approach doesn't jive all that well with a table based approach 20:36:03 I think we need oleonard :) 20:36:09 cait: that's already on my list! 20:36:20 i am not sure how that would work with the mock up 20:36:23 #info Giannis Kourmoulis, Thessaloniki Greece 20:36:49 I think a second screen that gives a matrix of types categories and libraries with what the rule will be ( and where that rule is coming from ) would be a good companion 20:36:59 I have read the RFC... I'm a bit concerned that having a lot of issuing rules will make this new appoach hard to overview 20:37:02 indradg it must be early for you! 20:37:18 like middle of the night? 20:37:20 khall: that seems like a good approach 20:37:22 andreashm: that is what the second screen I propose will take care of 20:37:43 thanks! 20:37:44 BobB: 2:10 am 20:37:58 :) well done! 20:38:09 cait -- how would you feel about some sort of explicit 'compare circ rules' functionality? 20:38:11 khall: could youmaybe mock up the second screen too? 20:38:26 to get a better idea? 20:38:29 my consortia is sponsoring this development, although i’m very much letting pianohacker and khall take the reins on this. we’ve currently got 1200 issuingrule lines, so they have a good test case for lots of rules already. 20:38:31 * andreashm would like that too 20:38:32 cait: yes, I can do that 20:38:53 hbraum: ouch 20:38:54 and looking at the current mockup, a second screen overview would be helpful, I agree. 20:38:55 #action khall asked nicely to add another mock-up for an overview kind of page 20:38:56 yeah 1200 lines is crazy 20:39:19 The first step is to change the internals without changing the externals. If anyone has an issue with the proposed schema please let us know asap 20:39:53 it will be a bit harder to get a nice excel sheet out :) 20:40:04 that's what we do now - because you can make it sortable 20:40:11 if there is no longer a need for it... that might be not too bad 20:40:16 this would be a table too, so very sortable 20:40:23 first thing id do is create a script where you can pass a itemtype, categorycode and branch, and get back what the rule applied would be 20:40:27 then you can change the internals 20:40:30 run that again 20:40:37 and prove it hasn't suddenly changed 20:40:42 rangi: agreed, unit tests ++ 20:41:21 khall: I've got most of that written. 20:41:26 that script could then have a web frontend put on it later, so librarians could choose from a drop down, and see what rule would be applied .. rather than having to read everything 20:41:46 why was this book issued for 4 weeks .. oh it used this rule 20:41:50 rangi: you're reading my mind ; ) We've discussed that idea 20:41:55 #idea have a script that gives you the circ conditions for branch, itemtype and patron category entered 20:42:00 70% of support queuries gone :) 20:42:04 I think that should definitely be built in 20:42:17 more time to signoff!!! 20:42:41 bag: heh, we have found what you wanted 20:42:44 rangi ha! no kidding. 20:43:07 In design discussions, we talked about making the lookup available on the circ page too, just for reference. 20:43:12 hbraum: nekls++ btw for sponsoring - much needed 20:43:26 for libraries with only 150 and less rules too :) 20:43:56 ok, any more ideas or can we move on? 20:44:05 full agenda tonight, but i don't want to rush youtoo much :) 20:44:12 going once 20:44:17 yw! the overall development scope of the project will also help branch specific circ-related rules get applied through this, right khall? 20:44:36 hbraum: yes! 20:44:57 i'd lke to move up a topic - Kohacon16 20:44:58 it will hopefully be a grand unification theory for Koha circ rules 20:45:10 agreed, let's move on 20:45:21 #topic KohaCon16 - Greece 20:45:23 thanks khall 20:45:30 ikourmou? 20:45:39 i'm here! 20:45:48 I think we are all curious for an update :) 20:46:11 #info Liz Rea, Catalyst 20:46:16 we are working on the ocnference, we started with forming a committee 20:46:23 the dates are set 20:46:31 from 30th of may 20:46:36 #info David Nind, Wellington, NZ 20:46:38 to 4th of june 20:46:57 #info dates are set - may 30 - june 4 20:47:12 3 first days of presentations, then a day off for a roadtrip for sightseeing 20:47:25 and then teo days for the hackfest 20:47:37 the venue is already booked 20:47:57 and the webpage for the Kohacon16 will be live next week 20:48:24 I would like to ask you people for a couple of things... 20:48:43 ikourmou++ 20:48:47 there will be a call for presentations i suppose 20:49:14 what is the best way to deal with it? 20:49:29 hm you could look at how it was done the last years maybe 20:49:40 i think probably put it on the website, but alos send to the mailing lists 20:49:50 do we have to specify subjects in advance? 20:49:55 nope 20:50:04 apart from, should be Koha related :) 20:50:26 i think you can probably keep it simple :) 20:50:36 it's nice to get as many local presentations as you can too 20:50:51 ok, there are some thoughts on presentation subjects from the organising team here 20:51:37 aso, when would we start accepting registrations? 20:51:59 I think getting out the cfp would be highest prio now 20:52:08 some people onl yget funding for travel if they get to speak 20:52:10 or it's easier for them 20:52:45 and also with an idea about the program, more people might register - not sure 20:52:48 ok, it could be done by next week 20:53:19 often it makes it easier for people to get funding 20:53:24 you mean a more specific program than i mentioned above, i suppose 20:53:27 to attend 20:53:48 if they can say "theres a presentation about linked data and Koha .. we want to do that" to their boss ;) 20:53:59 if that makes sense 20:54:18 ok, i understand 20:54:23 ikourmou: i think if you have some specific topics oyu'd like to get presntations about you could put that in the cfp, but laeave it open for other ideas as well? 20:54:50 yes, that's what we were thinking 20:55:01 cool 20:55:08 cool :) 20:55:28 re the conference dates, an early announcement to the mailing list is always good - announce early and announce often 20:55:40 ikourmou: i think it is not uncommon to get a few people from the community to help decide on the presentations once the call for papers is over. if you need help with that feel free to ask 20:56:05 BobB: already sent to koha mailing list and to koha news 20:56:24 keep doing it, just sayin' 20:56:51 BobB: will do again with the webpage address, thx 20:57:02 yes, very good 20:57:18 ikourmou: please let me know when you have stuff for the community kohacon16 page 20:57:29 thanks, drojf1, that was my next question 20:57:44 stuff = a url, specific copy you'd like there 20:57:50 otherwise you're leaving it up to me :) 20:58:35 and another question: 20:59:09 if we get to many proposals for presentations, what is the best way to choose? 20:59:22 or should we try to fit them all to the schedule? 20:59:41 that's up to you 20:59:56 but one question to ask is, are you definitely coming 21:00:03 when i ran kohacon10 21:00:14 we got a lot of proposals, then a lot couldn't come 21:00:26 so it's easy to drop those ones out 21:00:51 ok, i will note this - hadn't thought of it :-) 21:00:52 you may get a lot of papers from a single institution, who you could ask to share slots. if you got the same topic covered by a library and a support provider, choose the library 21:00:54 magnuse: knuckles 21:00:57 after that, we had enough :) 21:01:31 or make them collaborate ;) 21:01:52 if you have the capacity, you can run parallel sessions too 21:02:10 which is kinda horrible imho 21:02:11 :) 21:02:33 i think single track conferences are so so so much better than multi track 21:02:34 that would not be my choice ... parallel sessions 21:02:38 yeah... having to pick... aah 21:02:39 #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil 21:02:39 :) 21:02:40 bag: HI 21:02:41 que tal, magnuse 21:03:08 however, sometimes you can ask if someone would rather present as part of the hackfest 21:03:09 having some kind of discussion/roundtable thing or question and answers is also good to fill slots 21:03:20 having said all this .. it's never been a problem in the past 21:03:27 single track conferences ++ 21:03:32 maybe worry, once the papers come in :) 21:03:36 and having too many presentations will be a new and exciting problem to solve :) 21:03:45 oh, and set a deadline - i think i tmakes people actually write abstracts 21:03:58 can still extend if necessary 21:04:00 we were thinking of placing "introductory" presentations in the morning sessions, leaving the more specialised ones for the afternoon 21:04:19 that makes sense to me 21:04:48 another question: 21:04:49 sleeping in ++ 21:04:56 Is there something we should take care of, regarding travel arrangements? 21:05:06 #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 21:05:09 especially for people oustide the EU? 21:05:22 I have always found a page, that lists airports close 21:05:23 the conference should be accessible for librarians and newbies; very technical presentations can be left to the hackfest 21:05:36 really helpful 21:05:43 and maybe a link to VISA requirements etc 21:05:55 also, for some people they make ask you for an invitation letter 21:05:56 does greece ... yeah that 21:06:07 ikourmou I would like a scholarship to attend the conference please, $5k should do it :) 21:06:22 so having a letter you can sign and scan is handy too 21:06:34 (it helps with some people getting a VISA) 21:06:43 BobB: I 'll see what we can do :) 21:07:16 thanks ikourmou, I will wait patiently 21:07:43 ok, noted (VISA info and invitation letter). thanks 21:08:06 i forgot to add #info... but curious people wil read full minutes i hope 21:08:21 #info forgot to add more infos... lots of KohaCon infos in full meeting logs 21:08:35 cait +1 21:09:00 ikourmou: any more questions? or questions for ikourmou? 21:09:05 http://kohacon15.projektlinkkonsult.com/getting-to-ibadan/ <-- a page like that is handy 21:09:31 rangi: yes, i've seen that 21:09:51 Are there good beers in Greece? 21:10:04 heh 21:10:19 http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Kohacon13/Social <--- i brought my own 21:10:20 that's probably the most important question 21:10:29 is there anything that you would like sto stress out in general? especially you people that already organised a conference before... 21:10:31 but pages like that on the wiki are good to create too, also 21:10:40 http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Kohacon13/Arrivals 21:11:03 Jobu: a lot of microbreweries, i hope you will find interesting 21:11:12 rangi: I will try to bring them! 21:11:51 ikourmou: great :) 21:12:04 #info there are lots of microbreweries in Greece 21:12:18 I’m sold can we have kohacon next week? 21:12:21 best advertising for kohacon... 21:12:26 heh 21:12:28 i am all fo rit 21:12:33 but i think we need to move on 21:12:58 ok, thank you people for the advice :) 21:13:05 #topic Update from the International Fund Committee 21:13:12 not much besides - we tried to put together a meeting - but with holidays we weren’t able to find one 21:13:13