13:01:41 <kidclamp> #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 26 April 2017
13:01:41 <huginn`> Meeting started Wed Apr 26 13:01:41 2017 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:01:41 <huginn`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:01:41 <huginn`> The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_26_april_2017'
13:01:47 <kidclamp> #topic Introductions
13:01:47 <wahanui> #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
13:02:01 <kidclamp> #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions, USA
13:02:04 <oleonard> #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, USA
13:02:06 <cait1> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
13:02:20 <atheia> #info Alex Sassmannshausen, PTFS Europe, Belgium
13:02:26 <Joubu> #info Jonathan Druart
13:02:27 <caboose> #info, Michael Cabus, ByWater Solutions, USA (Princeton NJ)
13:03:54 <oha> should i do the same? :)
13:04:03 <Joubu> yes
13:04:03 <kidclamp> yes please oha
13:04:08 <Joubu> jajm: around?
13:04:18 <LibraryClaire> #info Claire Gravely, BSZ, Germany
13:04:19 <oha> #info Francesco Rivetti
13:04:36 <jajm> Joubu, yep
13:04:42 <jajm> #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre
13:05:03 <mveron> #info Marc Véron, Koha Support Schweiz, www.koha-support.ch
13:05:08 <Joubu> alex_a, blou, fridolin1, francharb, LibraryClaire, nlegrand?
13:05:16 <petter> #info Petter G. Åsen, Oslo public library
13:05:18 <Joubu> fredericd:?
13:05:33 <LibraryClaire> ^
13:05:36 <Joubu> I am going to create a list of people to ping 5min before the min...
13:05:41 <Joubu> LibraryClaire: Hi! :)
13:05:46 <LibraryClaire> hi ;)
13:06:02 <alex_a> #info Alex Arnaud, Biblibre
13:06:25 <kidclamp> Joubu: we (bywater) all have alerts set for groups, heydevs, heysales, etc - maybe we could have people opt in for shouts in here?
13:06:52 <NateC> you rang?
13:06:54 <magnuse> #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
13:07:27 <jajm> Joubu, an automatic ping before the meetings would be great :) I add an alert to google calendar, but that's not enough
13:07:29 <Joubu> kidclamp: may work yes
13:07:54 <kidclamp> #topic Announcements
13:07:56 <cait1> maybe a claendar one could subscribe to?
13:08:02 <cait1> not sure where we could put it, but it might help
13:09:03 <kidclamp> can huginn or wahanui be set to ping us on a schedule?
13:09:12 <tcohen> #info Tomás Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
13:09:15 <josef_moravec> #info Josef Moravec, Municipal library Usti nad Orlici
13:09:22 <kidclamp> full house
13:09:34 <kidclamp> any announcements from anyone?
13:10:31 <tcohen> Elasticsearch in Kohadevbox
13:10:57 <Joubu> I may submit a RM proposal in the next few days
13:10:58 <tcohen> #info Elasticsearch 1.x support in kohadevbox has been removed, and the default it is now to install ES 5.x
13:11:13 <oleonard> Joubu++
13:11:15 <kidclamp> bug 18434
13:11:15 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18434 major, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Elasticsearch indexing broken with newer catmandu version
13:11:19 <magnuse> tcohen++
13:11:58 <kidclamp> #info Jonathan is working on a RM proposal
13:12:16 <cait1> Joubu++
13:12:17 <atheia> Joubu++
13:12:24 <barton> #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville KY
13:12:43 <oha> RM?
13:12:43 <wahanui> RM is jcamins
13:12:51 <atheia> oha: Release Manager
13:12:52 <wahanui> Release Manager is probably at KohaCon
13:12:52 <kidclamp> RM= Release Manager
13:12:56 <oha> of course
13:13:24 <kidclamp> moving on
13:13:27 <kidclamp> #topic Update from the Release manager (17.05)
13:13:38 <oleonard> wahanui: forget RM
13:13:39 <wahanui> oleonard: I forgot rm
13:14:20 <kidclamp> khall is not here - he plans to push all pqa enhancements before the slush so get those in now
13:14:40 <kidclamp> he sent out dates in his email and Joubu repeated
13:14:54 <kidclamp> May 5   - Feature Slush
13:14:54 <kidclamp> May 12 - Feature Freeze, String Freeze, 1st Draft of Release Notes
13:14:54 <kidclamp> May 19 - Release Beta, 2nd Draft of Release Notes
13:14:54 <kidclamp> May 26 - Final Release
13:14:54 <kidclamp> May 27 - Champagne!
13:15:17 <kidclamp> any comments?
13:15:35 <ashimema> Champagne on my Birthday... bonus ;)
13:15:58 <Joubu> I will certainly s/Champagne/Beers/
13:16:05 <oleonard> Maybe if you were old enough ashimema
13:16:06 <cait1> forget RM
13:16:07 <atheia> So… we would really love to get stockrotation in this release, but that obviously depends on QA being good on it.
13:16:36 <ashimema> haha
13:16:39 <atheia> If we get it Signed Off before Feature Slush might that still work? what does community think? Not sure about the deadlines and what they mean?
13:17:05 <Joubu> nothing matching "stock" in the NQA queue
13:17:08 <Joubu> bug#?
13:17:09 <francharb> #info francharb, inlibro
13:17:23 <francharb> thanks Joubu for the reminder
13:17:46 <atheia> 11897 Joubu
13:17:46 <Joubu> atheia: I explained what means the deadling in my email from yesterday
13:17:52 <Joubu> bug 11897
13:17:52 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11897 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alex.sassmannshausen, Failed QA , Stock Rotation for Koha
13:18:10 <atheia> Sorry — I must have missed that email somehow! (I blame my terrible cold!)
13:18:49 <kidclamp> moving on
13:18:54 <kidclamp> #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
13:19:11 <kidclamp> cait, jajm, mtj
13:19:25 <cait1> ah sorry
13:19:40 <cait1> ok, release 16.11.07 is done
13:19:53 <jajm> the next 3.22.x (3.22.21) release will probably be the last
13:19:59 <cait1> makes sense
13:20:12 <cait1> 16.11.08 is planned for 22nd again, with string freeze a week before
13:20:15 <oleonard> jajm++
13:20:24 <oleonard> cait1++
13:20:25 <cait1> i plan to push Hea2 patches soon
13:20:43 <Joubu> jajm: would be great to have hea v2 in it then
13:20:58 <cait1> some tests on Jenkins are failing - still need some help with that
13:21:04 <kidclamp> #info 3.22.21 will be final 3.22 release
13:21:21 <kidclamp> #info 16.11.08 is planned for release on the 22nd
13:21:36 <kidclamp> #info hea2 is being considered for both
13:21:53 <tcohen1> Joubu++
13:21:53 <jajm> Joubu, ok
13:22:08 <cait1> https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_16.11.x_D8/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
13:22:20 <cait1> #link https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_16.11.x_D8/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/ failing tests on Jenkins for 16.11.x
13:22:47 <kidclamp> anything else?
13:22:47 <wahanui> anything else is, like, just being crap
13:23:00 <oleonard> wahanui you are full of sass
13:23:01 <wahanui> ...but wahanui is a bot|a repository of important and useful and accurate information or at least partially slow.|a little bit creepy.|right sometimes|a strange duck|a bot...|rumoured to be a sentient bot with sass|<reply> an extremely creepy stalker bot.... you have been warned|a parrot|<reply> wrong|<reply> on fire|<reply> gaining knowledge faster than sustainable|canadian|google|<reply> wahanui couldn't be bothered to show up|laser kiwi of the bo
13:23:21 <kidclamp> moving on :-)
13:23:28 <kidclamp> #topic Updates from the QA team
13:23:50 <kidclamp> Joubu sent a good summary of things yesterday, please read his email
13:24:05 <cait1> Joubu++
13:24:06 <kidclamp> #info read 'what's on in koha-devel 12' for a good update
13:24:35 <barton> Joubu++
13:25:41 <kidclamp> I still owe an email or wiki page on elastic and am working on that
13:26:06 <atheia> joubu++
13:26:15 <cait1> kidclamp++
13:26:16 <kidclamp> but as tcohen mentioned it 5.x is built into kohadevbox and please ask if you have any troubles getting it going
13:26:17 <ashimema> Joubu++
13:26:33 <kidclamp> #action kidclamp is working on a summary/update of ES work
13:27:05 <kidclamp> #info atheia asks for SO/QA to look at bug 11897
13:27:05 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11897 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alex.sassmannshausen, Failed QA , Stock Rotation for Koha
13:28:12 <kidclamp> we have 1 critical and 5 majors in the NQA queue
13:28:44 <kidclamp> anyone interested in joinin QA for the next release shoudl submit their names - there is plenty of low hanging fruit to train on
13:28:48 <kidclamp> so don't be afraid
13:29:04 <kidclamp> #info interested members please submit their names for QA for next release
13:29:54 <kidclamp> anything to add joubu, jajm, ashimema marcelr, tcohen , fridolin1
13:30:35 <ashimema> think you've nicely covered it there.. we need as much help as we can get
13:30:48 <tcohen> I'd like to add
13:30:59 <tcohen> that there are lots of REST api implementing bugs
13:31:01 <ashimema> also, don't feel afraid about not having enough time.. anything you can fit in helps
13:31:08 <tcohen> that lack QA for a lot of time
13:31:27 <Joubu> 5 people is not enough :)
13:31:28 <tcohen> I volunteer to help, but please bug owners, answer the questions!
13:32:12 <kidclamp> and signing off on QA teams patches (or offering cookies) is a good way to get your patches looked at :-)
13:32:19 <ashimema> many hands and all that
13:32:48 <caboose> I really want to do more QA so I can help
13:32:57 <caboose> *newbie, but wanting to be more skilled
13:33:17 <kidclamp> SO is also a really good place to start
13:33:18 <wahanui> okay, kidclamp.
13:33:22 <kidclamp> bah
13:33:55 * ashimema is always happy to try and help upskill people so that's another
13:33:58 <Joubu> kidclamp: it is the definition of corruption, right? :)
13:34:16 * barton may take ashimema up on that :-)
13:34:39 <ashimema> so yeah.. don't fell put off.. instead if your not confident about something just ask someone..
13:34:49 <kidclamp> #info the QA team wants to help you learn - so ask us questions and get involved
13:35:00 * ashimema knows he's been crap of late.. but I will always try to get back to people eventually ;)
13:35:07 <ashimema> :)
13:35:16 <kidclamp> ashimema++
13:35:30 <barton> I was thinking that maybe we could have a signoff-fest or something...
13:35:36 <kidclamp> wahanui: so
13:35:37 <wahanui> i think so is a really good place to start
13:35:42 <barton> a bit like a GBSD, but for sign offs.
13:35:45 <kidclamp> wahanui forget so
13:35:45 <wahanui> kidclamp: I forgot so
13:35:56 <kidclamp> GBSD is for sign offs :-)
13:36:07 <fridolin1> sorry im underwarter
13:36:08 <barton> oh.
13:36:15 <barton> well.
13:36:30 <kidclamp> fridolin1 (blub blub)
13:36:34 <barton> shows you what I know ;-)
13:36:37 <Joubu> I think GBSD for bugfixes only, before the release would be great
13:36:54 <ashimema> +1 on that
13:37:10 <barton> I'm game :-)
13:37:15 <kidclamp> may 10th? same as next dev meeting?
13:37:23 <caboose> I'm game too!
13:37:24 <kidclamp> since we should all be around then?
13:37:40 <atheia> Yeah, cool idea!
13:37:43 <ashimema> works for me
13:37:46 <cait1> is it not too late?
13:37:57 <kidclamp> if we just do bugs and not enhancments
13:38:00 <cait1> ah ok
13:38:05 <kidclamp> and is early for next release
13:38:28 <ashimema> indeed.. make is 'bug only' then it should be solid
13:39:03 <kidclamp> #action GBSD - bugs only edition - May 10th to clean up for 17.05 release
13:39:09 <Joubu> There are not much bugs with patches attached, should be easy to make all them moved forward
13:39:31 <cait1> kidclamp++ :)
13:40:10 <kidclamp> if there aren't enough maybe devs can patch some more :-)
13:40:28 <Joubu> count on me for that :p
13:40:45 <cait1> would people be interested to have a doc writing event after the release?
13:40:46 <Joubu> I am going to focus on bugfixes for the next 2 weeks
13:41:02 <kidclamp> okay, I think we bled into next topic too
13:41:09 <kidclamp> #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
13:41:30 <kidclamp> #info Joubu is working on bug fixes for next two weeks, help is appreciated
13:41:31 <francharb> cait1, good idea!
13:41:42 <atheia> cait1: I think that's a good idea too.
13:41:49 <kidclamp> cait++
13:41:59 <ashimema> cait1++
13:42:04 * cait1 wrote herself a reminder about that
13:42:11 <ashimema> I was thinking similar..
13:42:17 * ashimema still has some shibboleth docs to write :(
13:42:50 * magnuse has to leave
13:42:57 <kidclamp> #action cait wants to schedule a doc writing fest after GBSD
13:43:11 <kidclamp> #action cait wants to schedule a doc writing fest after the release that is
13:43:19 <tcohen> Joubu++
13:43:36 <kidclamp> any more topics? dont want to keep us all too long - there is a release on the way!
13:43:54 <cait1> heh
13:44:01 <kidclamp> #topic Review of coding guidelines
13:44:07 <oha> we have needs to have a system to execute background jobs
13:44:20 <oha> and i know Joubu will need something as well like that
13:44:33 <oha> not sure if this is the right moment/place to talk about it tho
13:44:48 <Joubu> oha: I sent an email to dcook yesterday, he announced something about that 2 months ago
13:44:59 <Joubu> I'd like to know if he has something on the grill to submit
13:45:11 <Joubu> or if we should start our own from scratch
13:45:22 <oha> ok, count me in if in case
13:45:55 * ashimema uses Minion for background tasks.. fits lovely with Mojo
13:46:10 <kidclamp> #info joubu and oha looking at background jobs, trying to coordinate with dcook in case he has begun work
13:46:41 <Joubu> ashimema: any pointers are welcome
13:46:58 <kidclamp> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#PERL17:_Unit_tests_are_required guideline_proposal1
13:46:58 * ashimema willl go dig out the email and reply there
13:47:09 <Joubu> oha: http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2017-April/043671.html
13:47:21 <oha> Joubu: thanks. ashimema great!
13:47:22 <kidclamp> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#PERL26:_Koha::Exceptions guideline_proposal2
13:48:07 <kidclamp> marcelr is not around, but does anyone have comments or questions on these?
13:48:28 * ashimema is quickly reading those two
13:48:59 <Joubu> yes, something
13:48:59 <wahanui> something is fishy
13:49:09 <ashimema> I'm deffo happy with the first one
13:49:11 <Joubu> I am rewriting stuffs, and moving them to Koha, right?
13:49:20 <Joubu> I think that everybody is aware of that
13:49:23 <kidclamp> if you say so :-)
13:49:27 <Joubu> I submit tests when I move stuffs
13:49:42 <Joubu> so I do not think it is necessary to have people working on writing tests for C4
13:49:51 <Joubu> just signoff my patches...
13:50:07 <kidclamp> hmm..but if they add to C4 does it not help you to have existing tests when moving?
13:50:12 <cait1> hm even when something i changed in C4?
13:50:17 <kidclamp> I mean, I am happy to write less tests :-)
13:50:19 <ashimema> also happy with the move to Exceptions
13:50:30 <josef_moravec> Joubu++ that does make sense
13:50:34 * oha must go :(
13:50:35 <cait1> ideally we shouldn't do that, but there might be bug fixes etc. with regression tests
13:50:57 <Joubu> maybe I did not understand what the guidelines says
13:51:14 <kidclamp> I think it's a good guideline with room for judgement calls on testing old code?
13:51:14 <cait1> always feel better when there are tests when i push holds stuff for example :)
13:51:21 <Joubu> someone to resume?
13:51:24 <ashimema> I think it's mostly covered by `as well as for changes to existing routines (perhaps excluding very trivial edits)`
13:51:36 <kidclamp> i.e. if someone doesn't add tests to C4 QA can judge whether to pass or fail
13:51:36 <cait1> Unit tests must be provided for *ALL* new routines in modules, as well as for changes to existing routines ...
13:51:40 <Joubu> yes but... that is already the case for years now :)
13:52:07 <Joubu> ok, so nothing new. We are just writing down something that was missing
13:52:10 <ashimema> it's just good to have it in writing :)
13:52:15 <cait1> yep
13:52:16 <ashimema> yup
13:52:17 <ashimema> pretty much
13:52:18 <kidclamp> yup
13:52:20 <Joubu> ok sorry then :)
13:52:21 <cait1> good for new people and also to back up qa etc
13:53:13 * ashimema would also be tempted to somehow try and encourage documentation submissions along with the code submissions.
13:53:36 <kidclamp> #startvote Should we accept the proposed changes to guideline PERL17? Yes,No
13:53:36 <huginn`> Begin voting on: Should we accept the proposed changes to guideline PERL17? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
13:53:36 <huginn`> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
13:53:45 <kidclamp> #vote Yes
13:53:50 <tcohen> #vote Yes
13:53:52 <ashimema> sometimes I spend half the time QA'ing somthing trying to get my head around what it's actually meant to do.. it would really help everyone if new features had full documentation submitted as part of the bug
13:53:57 <cait1> #vote Yes
13:53:58 <Joubu> #vote yes
13:53:59 <barton> #vote Yes
13:53:59 <ashimema> #vote Yes
13:54:07 <atheia> #vote Yes
13:54:12 <mveron> #vote Yes
13:54:19 <josef_moravec> #vote Yes
13:54:25 <cait1> ashimema: ideally the test plans should help - but having help pages/manual patches would be great too
13:54:32 <kidclamp> glast call
13:54:37 <atheia> ashimema: if so, where would we stick the documentation? Because there is a separate process for koha docs submission no?
13:54:42 <barton> documentation++
13:54:46 <kidclamp> #endvote
13:54:46 <huginn`> Voted on "Should we accept the proposed changes to guideline PERL17?" Results are
13:54:46 <huginn`> Yes (9): Joubu, cait1, josef_moravec, ashimema, atheia, barton, kidclamp, tcohen, mveron
13:55:02 <kidclamp> discussion on PERL26?
13:55:07 <ashimema> yeah.. test plans certainly help.. but sometimes it's more involved understanding the background of how to setup the test than it is to just run through the actual bit of the plan..
13:55:22 <ashimema> PERL26++ from me
13:55:29 <cait> we got a bit of a backlog with documenation right now - will have to catch up
13:55:42 <ashimema> indeed..  that's kinda my point cait ;)
13:55:50 <cait> I know :)
13:56:01 <cait> maybe soething for a meeting with rangi around
13:56:09 <cait> to see how we could make it work workflow-wise
13:56:20 <atheia> cait++
13:56:23 <kidclamp> #startvote  Should we accept the proposed changes to guideline PERL26? Yes,No
13:56:23 * ashimema is generally trying to encourage documentation submissions with new work at ptfs-e these days
13:56:23 <huginn`> Begin voting on: Should we accept the proposed changes to guideline PERL26? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
13:56:23 <huginn`> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
13:56:28 <Joubu> we need an example module for exception. We do not have much things using it pushed
13:56:31 <atheia> #vote Yes
13:56:35 <Joubu> #vote yes
13:56:40 <ashimema> #vote Yes
13:56:43 <kidclamp> #vote Yes
13:56:43 <josef_moravec> #vote yes
13:56:48 <atheia> The guideline suggests an example no?
13:56:48 <barton> #vote Yes
13:56:48 <tcohen> #vote Yes
13:56:57 <cait> #vote yes
13:56:57 <atheia> (I didn't look at the example yet though)
13:57:08 <kidclamp> last call
13:57:28 <kidclamp> #endvote
13:57:28 <huginn`> Voted on "Should we accept the proposed changes to guideline PERL26?" Results are
13:57:28 <huginn`> Yes (8): Joubu, cait, josef_moravec, ashimema, atheia, barton, kidclamp, tcohen
13:57:46 <kidclamp> #info as people work on exceptions please add best examples to PERL26
13:57:49 <Joubu> there is no guideline for logging
13:58:02 <Joubu> atheia: yes indeed but the example is not the perfect example :)
13:58:22 <Joubu> and would be good to have a small piece of code on the wiki, instead of refering to the codebase
13:58:41 <atheia> Yeah, fair enough, that sounds sensible.
13:59:08 <kidclamp> #action marcelr please provide a code snippet for PERL26 if you have one :-)
13:59:27 <kidclamp> #topic Set time of next meeting
13:59:30 * ashimema is slightly upset that there's no POD in Koha::Exceptions :(
14:00:11 <ashimema> even if it just told you to go read the POD on Exception::Class
14:00:23 <atheia> Hey… should we be talking about the gender neutral language guideline proposal?
14:00:24 <cait> hm
14:00:25 <cait> https://perldoc.koha-community.org/
14:00:30 <cait> are we missing the newer versions there?
14:00:32 <atheia> Or is that somehow out of scope?
14:00:43 <kidclamp> May 10th, 21 UTC? NZ folks have had a hard time making meeting and that would help
14:00:57 <cait> sounds good to me
14:01:13 * ashimema doesn't see a gender neutral language proposal
14:01:31 <Joubu> not in the agenda
14:01:38 <atheia> ashimema: there was something on the mailing list.
14:01:38 <cait> hm yeah, but it was written
14:01:42 <kidclamp> bug 18432
14:01:42 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18432 trivial, P5 - low, ---, ephetteplace, Pushed to Master , Most code comments assume male gender
14:01:43 <Joubu> and the author does not seem around :)
14:01:43 <cait> i tihnk maybe not aware on how to add
14:02:00 <cait> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Draft:Gender_Neutral_Pronouns
14:02:29 <kidclamp> so is a coding guideline proposal?
14:02:43 <cait> i'd say so - maybe we could find a better example later
14:02:48 <atheia> Yeah, I think that was the if I recall correctly.
14:02:49 <kidclamp> I think add to next meeting
14:02:57 <cait> ok
14:03:02 <ashimema> agreed..
14:03:03 <atheia> Sure.
14:03:31 <ashimema> there's also a proposal dating back to 2014 about formalising in a guidline that we use american english
14:03:32 <kidclamp> #action phette23 should add gender neutral pronouns proposal to coding guidleines for next meeting
14:03:39 * Joubu is happy that someone reads his test's descriptions
14:03:42 <ashimema> in the 'discussion' tab on the wiki
14:03:50 <atheia> ^^
14:04:27 <kidclamp> #info Next Meeting: May 10th 2017, 21 UTC
14:04:28 <cait> heh and i commented
14:04:36 <kidclamp> last call
14:04:41 <cait> +1
14:04:42 * Joubu would have spent more than 3sec to write it, if he had known...
14:05:23 <kidclamp> #endmeeting