20:08:46 <Joubu> #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 27 December 2017
20:08:46 <huginn> Meeting started Wed Dec 27 20:08:46 2017 UTC.  The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:08:46 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:08:46 <huginn> The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_27_december_2017'
20:08:51 <Joubu> #topic Introductions
20:08:52 <wahanui> #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
20:08:57 <Joubu> #info Jonathan Druart
20:09:00 <cait> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
20:09:11 <tcohen> #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
20:10:00 <cait> let's change the versioning again :)
20:10:04 <Joubu> so, quick?
20:10:09 <Joubu> #topic Announcements
20:10:18 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_27_December_2017
20:10:31 <Joubu> Anyone have something?
20:10:37 <cait> me
20:10:40 <tcohen> nope
20:10:53 <cait> hm nope, that's for later
20:11:12 <Joubu> #topic Update from the Release Manager (18.05)
20:11:43 <Joubu> As I do not think people read the minutes I have nothing to say
20:11:52 <Joubu> #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
20:11:53 * cait always read the minutes
20:12:04 <cait> rangi: ?
20:12:17 <tcohen> me too, but I'm here hehe
20:12:18 <rangi> im all ready to release, just waiting on the others
20:12:30 <rangi> (who are waiting on packages)
20:12:41 <Joubu> same as frido and kidclamp
20:12:48 <cait> nothing from Mirko?
20:12:57 <Joubu> we need to auto generate the packages
20:13:00 <Joubu> to avoid such situations
20:13:09 <Joubu> because it's a nightmare to wait for people
20:13:14 <cait> there are nightly builds already
20:13:43 <tcohen> master is built, that's correct
20:13:47 <cait> but doesn't look like they have been updated yet
20:13:50 <Joubu> that and the manual, we need to automatize as much as we can
20:13:59 <cait> https://apt.abunchofthings.net/koha-nightly/
20:14:27 <tcohen> ah
20:14:44 * rangi has to duck out for a meeting, bbiab
20:15:27 <cait> ok, so waiting for packaging manager
20:15:32 <Joubu> no need to add more I think, we (rmaints+me) are waiting for Mirko's answer
20:15:33 <Joubu> #topic Updates from the QA team
20:15:50 <cait> sec
20:16:08 <cait> #info the QA team had a QA sprint
20:16:10 <cait> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2017-12-21_QA_Sprint_Day
20:16:11 <tcohen> do we have Mirko's phone number? :-D
20:16:32 <cait> #info We got the SO queue down from 154 to about 108 currently
20:17:01 <cait> still lots to do
20:17:22 <cait> i have added a new entry page to the wiki
20:17:44 <cait> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/How_to_QA
20:18:24 <cait> please let me know if something is missing
20:18:31 <cait> done
20:19:26 <Joubu> #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
20:19:41 <Joubu> so we are supposed to vote on dozen of topics, and we are 3
20:20:02 <Joubu> Do we postpone or maintain the votes anyway?
20:20:14 <cait> we already postponed api votes to this meeting once
20:20:15 <tcohen> https://orig00.deviantart.net/835a/f/2014/199/0/a/nobody_cares__by_rejectedbandgeek-d7r7hs9.jpg
20:20:39 <cait> the meting was announced and all... i feel like we should go ahead - unelss we hit something really controversial
20:21:06 <tcohen> I'm comfortable if Katrin has added to the RFCs, it is mostly naming conventions (for what's REST-related)
20:21:33 <Joubu> #topic REST api - vote on cities, holds, libraries and patrons endpoint RFC
20:21:46 <Joubu> the problem was the change of the version I think
20:21:49 <cait> there is a notion from thd that I tihnk we could discuss first
20:21:59 <cait> 3 of the endpoints have zip or zipcode
20:22:05 <Joubu> #chair cait
20:22:05 <huginn> Current chairs: Joubu cait
20:22:06 <cait> could we use postal_code?
20:22:11 <cait> should
20:22:24 <tcohen> zip_code++
20:22:34 <tcohen> or whatever rangi says
20:22:43 <tcohen> he's the only native-speaker attendant
20:23:12 <Joubu> it was thd and it was post_code :)
20:23:15 <cait> he has ducked out for a meeting
20:23:20 <cait> oh thx
20:23:20 <cait> :)
20:23:49 <tcohen> do we all agree with post_code?
20:23:54 <Joubu> yes
20:24:06 <tcohen> unanimous
20:24:20 <cait> my dictionary says postal code...
20:24:25 <cait> maybe clear that up before programming it
20:24:33 <cait> but otherwise i am ok with it :)
20:25:06 <Joubu> agreed on everything then apart the zipcode?
20:25:25 <cait> i tihnk so
20:25:30 <cait> we will have a final check with a native speaker
20:25:38 <tcohen> I agree with my proposals, added cait's suggestions
20:25:51 <cait> #agreed change zip or zipcode to postal code or post code (whatever is the correct one)
20:26:06 <Joubu> #agreed unanimously the 4 RFC for cities, holds, libraries and patrons
20:26:07 <cait> heh :)
20:26:17 <tcohen> excellent
20:26:28 <cait> so it's just the zip thing and they are good to go
20:26:59 <Joubu> I keep my 'local manual page edition' topic for later then...
20:27:06 <cait> makes sense
20:27:25 <Joubu> kidclamp added " Build packages automatically for stable releases? ", postponed, will see what happen next month
20:27:31 <Joubu> I think we all agree on that
20:27:45 <tcohen> the only problem is gpg signing the packages
20:28:04 <tcohen> we could stage the automatically built packages somewhere
20:28:15 <tcohen> and then implement a way for rmaints to sign
20:28:18 <Joubu> We can ask more reactive people to do it
20:28:23 <Joubu> or have more people involved
20:28:30 <Joubu> ok, what you said
20:28:33 <Joubu> #topic Review of the coding guidelines
20:28:36 <Joubu> did you read them?
20:28:53 <tcohen> yes
20:28:57 <Joubu> #topic new coding guidelines J12
20:29:01 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#JS12:_Include_javascript_at_the_end_of_template_JS12:_Include_javascript_at_the_end_of_template
20:29:08 <cait> link is broken
20:29:32 <cait> #linkhttps://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#JS12:_Include_javascript_at_the_end_of_template_JS12:_Include_javascript_at_the_end_of_template
20:29:38 <cait> odd
20:29:40 <cait> anyway
20:30:03 <cait> look sgood to me
20:30:04 <Joubu> we already pushed lot of thing is that sense
20:30:08 <cait> an example is always helpful
20:30:40 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#JS12:_Include_javascript_at_the_end_of_template
20:30:55 <cait> :)
20:31:04 <cait> i mean it sounds alright +1 form me
20:31:05 <Joubu> we need a way to catch that automatically, but will not be easy
20:31:29 <Joubu> #agreed coding guidelines J12 - include JavaScript code at the end of template
20:31:49 <Joubu> #topic New rule SQL12: Booleans (DRAFT)
20:32:01 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#SQL12:_Booleans_.28DRAFT.29
20:32:15 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#SQL12:_Booleans #for later
20:32:16 <tcohen> cait: are you aware of what is it about
20:32:16 <tcohen> ?
20:32:24 <cait> let me quickly look plz
20:32:55 <Joubu> tcohen: Is there a bug to update existing values?
20:33:02 <cait> so tinyint will be automatically converted to boolean when generating the schema?
20:33:07 <cait> or does it need to be changed?
20:33:18 <tcohen> there isn't, but I can do file it and implement it, JOubu
20:33:19 <tcohen> yes
20:33:34 <tcohen> cait: the idea is that we annotate boolean columns in the schema files
20:33:55 <tcohen> so the Koha::Object::TO_JSON method can translate them to proper booleans
20:33:59 <cait> so there is no way it will recognize them automatically?
20:34:09 <tcohen> there isn't
20:34:13 <Joubu> you should also explain the context in the same section
20:34:14 <cait> ok
20:34:23 <cait> yep i tihnk one or 2 mroe sentences would be good
20:34:37 <tcohen> Joubu:  you mean mention TO_JSON?
20:34:40 <Joubu> yes
20:34:43 <cait> ydp
20:34:48 <cait> yep, or we will forget
20:34:51 <Joubu> and link to a bug
20:34:52 <cait> and may question it later
20:35:00 <tcohen> the codebase mostly uses tinyint(1)
20:35:05 <cait> but otherwise I am fine with it : )
20:35:12 <tcohen> but I've seen a couple patches introducing other types
20:35:39 <tcohen> the problem is DBIx::Class calls them all integer (TINYINT is an alias for INTEGER)
20:36:12 <tcohen> if we agree, I can volunteer to expand the explanation of this decision
20:36:17 <Joubu> #action tcohen improve the description of coding guideline SQL12 and open a bug report
20:36:22 <tcohen> and file a bug for catching all booleans around
20:36:31 <tcohen> that
20:37:11 <Joubu> IMO it will not fair to vote on it as it, but I do not see why people would oppose
20:37:32 <Joubu> It is not fair*
20:37:33 <cait> i think go ahead and have the formal vote next meeting
20:37:43 <cait> i mean file the bug and adapt description
20:37:50 <Joubu> #info SQL12 vote is postponed, lack of information on the wiki page
20:37:54 <tcohen> yeah, no rush really
20:38:06 <Joubu> but you can consider it as ok I think
20:38:16 <tcohen> we are already doing it
20:38:23 <Joubu> #topic New rule "No DBIx::Class in atomic updates"
20:38:32 <tcohen> each endpoint we write, we track booleans and act on them
20:38:37 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Database_updates#Modify_the_data_or_the_database_structure
20:39:04 <cait> oh sorry
20:39:06 <cait> i broke that one
20:39:07 <Joubu> ha, been updated
20:39:12 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Database_updates#DBIx::Class_.28DRAFT.29
20:39:47 <cait> so we should use plain SQL?
20:40:17 <cait> it says what NOT to do, but not what to do :)
20:40:17 <Joubu> yes
20:40:28 <Joubu> and perl
20:40:45 <Joubu> but you have to select/update/delete/whatever using SQL queries
20:41:02 <Joubu> and do not call subroutines/methods
20:41:37 <Joubu> we can postpone this one too as it's an important one
20:41:56 <cait> i tihnk i would clearly state that
20:41:57 <Joubu> even if it will be hard to have good arguments against it
20:41:58 <cait> just to be sure
20:42:10 <tcohen> the QA team already fails otherwise, right?
20:42:18 <Joubu> well yes, good arguments would be "it's easier to write"
20:42:20 <cait> i was thinking the other day that we might want to clear up coding guidelines (at another meeting) about koha object, dbic and when and when not to use sql
20:42:29 <cait> we have a lot of guildelines about how to get the sql right
20:43:12 <cait> might also be good to take another look and write down current practice for the koha namespace vs C4 (adding to it)
20:44:09 <Joubu> the update DB entries should be the only places where SQL queries are written, unless exceptions (too hard/slow with DBIx::Class)
20:44:49 <cait> as i have started this... do you want to add an action for me to make a suggestion?
20:45:40 <Joubu> #info forbid the use of DBIx::Class schema from update DB vote is postpone
20:46:08 <Joubu> #action cait improve the coding guidelines related to the use of SQL queries
20:46:13 <Joubu> make sense? :-/
20:46:32 <tcohen> yup
20:46:32 <tcohen> +1
20:46:39 <cait> will review and see what i can come up with
20:46:44 <Joubu> #topic New rule "Write good commit messages"
20:47:01 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Commit_messages&action=historysubmit&diff=19998&oldid=11190
20:47:12 <Joubu> this is the changes I made to the Commit_messages page
20:48:17 <Joubu> did you read that?
20:48:49 <tcohen> I'm finishing it, sorry
20:49:40 <tcohen> I agree with the changes
20:50:00 <cait> ok for me, but please be lenient with new committers
20:50:11 <cait> especially with the open source academy coming up in a few weeks
20:50:16 <Joubu> it's basically what I wrote on my email one month ago
20:50:26 <Joubu> cait: as always
20:50:27 <Joubu> :)
20:50:30 <tcohen> yes, I don't think that will be a blocker, but it is good to enforce such practices
20:50:37 <tcohen> (i.e. having it written)
20:51:03 <Joubu> I am updating the commit messages on push, and let a note on the bug report when I reword the message
20:51:13 <Joubu> but I'd like to avoid to do it by myself
20:51:18 <Joubu> first because it's time consuming
20:51:32 <Joubu> and, most of all, my English is bad and wrong
20:52:09 <Joubu> the most important part is to understand that the bug title must describe the bug, whereas the commit messages must describe what the patch does
20:52:29 <Joubu> when it's a bug fix, most of the time they are different
20:52:38 <cait> what bugs me a little about this is release notes
20:52:45 <cait> we list the 'broken' in the release notes
20:52:49 <cait> instead of the fix :)
20:53:08 <cait> but don't see a good way to fix this
20:53:10 <Joubu> we list the bug report titles
20:53:21 <cait> ey<h
20:53:22 <cait> yep
20:53:31 <cait> so release notes say: Feature X is broken
20:53:31 <Joubu> so it will not change anything
20:53:36 <cait> instead of Fix feature X
20:53:37 <cait> yep
20:53:59 <cait> just noting
20:54:15 <Joubu> ok
20:54:30 <Joubu> my point is more about the commit messages, when pushed they cannot be modified
20:55:04 <Joubu> we can think about your point, and use the "notes to go to the changelog" field is needed
20:55:43 * tcohen was distracted tweaking the boolean guidelines
20:56:03 <Joubu> postponed then?
20:56:10 <cait> we'd have to change all the bug titles, not easy
20:56:16 <cait> but separate problem :)
20:56:32 <tcohen> we should add a separate field for the release notes
20:56:33 <cait> for me it's ok - you already announced the changes on the list
20:56:37 <cait> so people could have commented
20:56:40 <Joubu> I do not change the bug titles, they are already like that
20:57:06 <cait> Joubu: yep sorry for sidetracking
20:57:36 <Joubu> nope you are right to raise it, I will try and keep that in mind
20:58:15 <Joubu> #info Read https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Commit_messages to know how to write valid commit messages
20:58:40 <Joubu> #info If you are a regular contributors and do not follow these rules, RM may FQA the patches
20:58:45 <Joubu> no need to vote, I decide :D
20:59:02 <tcohen> Joubu++
20:59:05 <Joubu> #topic Set time of next meeting
20:59:26 <Joubu> 10 January 2018, 14 UTC?
20:59:45 <tcohen> I'll be absent that week
21:00:04 <cait> i should be around
21:00:11 <tcohen> can any of you review my changes
21:00:11 <tcohen> https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#SQL12:_Booleans_.28DRAFT.29
21:00:14 <cait> i am not there the third week
21:00:37 <Joubu> #info Next meeting: 10 January 2017, 14 UTC
21:00:44 <Joubu> #endmeeting