13:07:58 <kidclamp> #startmeeting General IRC meeting 7 June 2017 13:07:58 <huginn> Meeting started Wed Jun 7 13:07:58 2017 UTC. The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:07:58 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 13:07:58 <huginn> The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_7_june_2017' 13:08:07 <kidclamp> #topic Introductions 13:08:08 <wahanui> #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 13:08:19 <kidclamp> #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions 13:08:28 <ashimema> #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-Europe 13:08:29 <Joubu> #info Jonathan Druart 13:08:30 <BobB> #info Bob Birchall, Calyx, Australia 13:08:31 <felicia> # info Felicia Beaudry, Equinox Open Library Initiative 13:08:34 <schnydszch> #info Eugene Espinoza Philippines 13:08:39 <cc_> #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe 13:08:40 <LibraryClaire> #info Claire Gravely, Germany 13:08:52 <atheia> #info Alex Sassmannshausen, PTFS Europe 13:09:19 <tcohen> morning 13:09:52 <BobB> talljoy? 13:09:53 <wahanui> I CRUNCH DATA or kicking butt at words with friends 13:09:59 <kidclamp> #topic Announcements 13:10:09 <kidclamp> Floor is open 13:10:15 <talljoy> #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions 13:10:20 <cait> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 13:10:23 <oleonard> #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, USA 13:10:51 <tcohen> #info Tomas Cohen Arazi. Theke Solutions 13:11:02 <khall> #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions 13:11:06 <barton> #info Barton Chittenden, BWS 13:11:10 <NateC> #info Nate Curulla ByWater 13:11:21 * kidclamp moved too quick :-) 13:11:47 <magnuse> #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 13:11:48 * barton wonders how many other ways there are to say 'ByWater Solutions' ;-) 13:11:52 <Joubu> #linkhttps://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_7_June_2017 13:11:56 <Joubu> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_7_June_2017 13:12:31 <Joubu> ok, just a few things for me: 13:12:38 <Joubu> I have started to push small things 13:12:45 <magnuse> Joubu++ 13:12:48 <benjamin> #info Benjamin Rokseth, Oslo Public Library 13:12:52 <josef_moravec_> #info Josef Moravec, Municipal Library Usti nad Orlici 13:12:55 <Joubu> as usual, read the what's on in koha-devel email, lot of things in the last one 13:13:09 <Joubu> I suggested to move it to a collaborative approach 13:13:29 <Joubu> I am really happy with the feedback/answers I got from the poll 13:13:33 <Joubu> and the kanban 13:13:46 <Joubu> kanban is https://tree.taiga.io/project/joubu-koha-rm-1711/wiki/home 13:13:52 <Joubu> let me know if you want to join us 13:14:00 <fridolin> #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre 13:14:05 <Joubu> we are 45 so far 13:14:12 <cait> yay :) 13:14:18 <tcohen> Joubu: do you think we could add how-to.pl to kohadevbox already? 13:14:25 <Joubu> I really (*really*) would like to see more regulars involved in the "top priority" tasks 13:14:40 <Joubu> which is "welcome new contributor" 13:14:54 <Joubu> one subtask is to update the wiki pages, to get entry points 13:15:03 <kidclamp> #link https://tree.taiga.io/project/joubu-koha-rm-1711/wiki/home 17.11 kanban board 13:15:06 <Joubu> to clearly list how people can help us 13:15:22 <Joubu> our wiki is a mess, some pages are ok but need a bit refresh 13:15:29 <fridolin> indeed 13:15:33 <kidclamp> #info regulars please help with the "welcome new contributor" task and update wiki to make it easier/more welcoming for newcomers 13:15:57 <Joubu> I think 1h of 5 people and we are done 13:16:13 <Joubu> tcohen: yes, soon, I plan to do it 13:16:20 <Joubu> tcohen: but do if you like :) 13:17:12 <Joubu> I am gonna send a kind of results of the poll to the list 13:17:32 <tcohen> Joubu++ 13:17:33 <Joubu> to highlight how people are willing to help and what they are expecting for the next release 13:17:46 <Joubu> that's all for me 13:17:56 <kidclamp> #action Joubu will send his poll results out to the lists 13:18:01 <kidclamp> Joubu++ 13:18:20 <cait> Joubu++ 13:18:22 <kidclamp> Anyone else for announcements? 13:18:39 <Joubu> (ha, and jenkins tells master is not stable, but it's wrong :)) 13:19:06 <kidclamp> okay moving ahead 13:19:07 <atheia> ehm… Bug 11897 is looking for testers — hoping to get it to QA fast in this release cycle. 13:19:07 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11897 new feature, P5 - low, ---, alex.sassmannshausen, Needs Signoff , Stock Rotation for Koha 13:19:08 <tcohen> jenkins-- 13:19:23 <ashimema> naughty jenkins 13:19:28 <kidclamp> #info looking for testers for bug 11897 13:19:33 <atheia> If you are willing to test it, but need help, contact me! 13:20:07 <kidclamp> #info contact atheia if you have any questions 13:20:09 <Joubu> Another announcement, from drojf: "17.05 packages ETA next monday due to release delay and local holidays." 13:20:22 <kidclamp> #info 17.05 packages ETA next monday due to release delay and local holidays. 13:20:22 * oleonard is having another go at it atheia 13:20:53 <atheia> oleonard++ 13:20:53 <kidclamp> #topic Update on releases 13:21:13 <thd> #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York, [still no dial tone or internet from home, waaah] 13:21:17 <kidclamp> fridolin? 13:21:18 <wahanui> rumour has it fridolin is busy at the moment, I asked him to backport the bug fix 13:21:52 <kidclamp> cait? 13:21:52 <wahanui> i heard cait was the best friend you could ever have. 13:22:06 <cait> I plan to stick to schedule 13:22:12 <cait> but following in fridolin's step now :) 13:22:29 <kidclamp> #info 16.11 on schedule but following patches from 17.05 13:22:30 <cait> I have caught up with master, so waiting for the first things he pushes now 13:22:44 <cait> well caught up to 17.05 release tag 13:22:49 <kidclamp> :-) 13:22:59 <cait> i still got 2 failing tests on jenkins that i don't know how to fix 13:23:21 <kidclamp> #info 2 tests failing on 16.11.x 13:23:24 <cait> i'd be very happy to see it 'blue' again 13:23:25 <tcohen> cait: those are jenkins problems 13:23:33 <tcohen> your branch is stable 13:23:48 <kidclamp> #info branch is stable, jenkins is having issues (poor jenkins) 13:23:53 <tcohen> yesterday we spent some time with Joubu trying to find the issue 13:23:59 <tcohen> and fix it 13:24:06 <kidclamp> mtj fridolin around? 13:24:14 <Joubu> 16.05.12 and 16.05.13 are buggy (cannot modify patron's passwd), see bug 18740 13:24:14 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18740 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , [16.05.12-16.05.13] Cannot modify patron password 13:24:17 <cait> cool thx! 13:24:45 <BobB> its 1am where mtj is, but he's committed to maintaining 16.05 13:24:54 <kidclamp> #info 16.05.12 & 16.05.13 are buggy (cannot modify patron's passwd), see bug 18740 13:25:05 <kidclamp> BobB++ 13:25:08 <kidclamp> mtj++ 13:25:29 <kidclamp> you have something for manual cait? for 17.05 or later? 13:26:50 <fridolin> kidclamp: yes 13:26:59 <kidclamp> anything to add? 13:27:02 <fridolin> i prepare for RMaint 13:27:16 <fridolin> but git branch is not yet created : 17.05/x 13:27:19 <fridolin> .x 13:27:27 <fridolin> i'm not allowed to do it 13:27:28 <fridolin> :D 13:27:59 <kidclamp> #info frido needs a git branch for 17.05.x and is prepared to start 13:28:02 <Joubu> fridolin: will do 13:28:03 <cait> sorry here 13:28:22 <fridolin> cool 13:28:41 <fridolin> ill try to do some each day 13:28:53 <cait> fridolin++ 13:29:05 <cait> manual? 13:29:06 <wahanui> hmmm... manual is at http://www.koha-community.org/documentation 13:29:15 <Joubu> fridolin: I cannot 13:29:16 <BobB> #action Joubu to prepare a 17.05 git branch for frido 13:29:21 <cait> the new manual for 17.05 has been generated and added to the website 13:29:37 <cait> there is an easy workflow for editing it with gitlab - no installation or downloads required, just web based 13:29:50 <cait> I have tested it with rangi and will write up a wiki page 13:29:59 <tcohen> cait: have you talked with bgkriegel about making a translation available?¡ 13:30:03 <oleonard> cool! 13:30:07 <cait> we have a lot of documentation to catch up on as not much has happened since Nicole left 13:30:14 <cait> so i hope to get as many volunteeers to help out as possible 13:30:15 <kidclamp> #info cait and rangi working on a gitlab based update system for the manual 13:30:29 <kidclamp> #info wiki page to follow, should lower the bar 13:30:30 <cait> it would possibly be best to work from the old release notes - I will think about a way to create a list of chapters we miss 13:30:47 <cait> tcohen: i think not yet - but it's planned 13:31:06 <cait> but anyone who wants to contribute or help out, please get in contact :) 13:31:25 <cait> i think Joubu has a list from the form - maybe we can start with those and use taiga, but I really want to make it as easy as possible 13:31:35 * ashimema would love to see a coding guideline to require doc update with new feature submissions. 13:31:37 <kidclamp> #info contact them in interested in helping 13:31:42 <cait> so if a library contributes in word or something, we will look for someone to convert it 13:32:03 <cait> ashimema: i think we have that - but yep, i will try to hunt down people in this release cycle to do that :) 13:32:12 <ashimema> :) 13:32:17 <cait> and hope others will help to keep an eye on it 13:32:20 <atheia> cait++ & ashimema++ 13:32:25 <Joubu> I can ask for a description before pushing enh/ft if we agree on that 13:32:28 <cait> maybe qa? 13:32:35 <atheia> (also aware I didn't write anything for housebound…! 8-/ ) 13:32:36 * ashimema has been bad at QA then if there's a guideline for that.. oops :( 13:33:00 <cait> lt met quickly check the coding guidelines 13:33:01 <barton> jzairo's in a conference call, but said that she was interested in volunteering for documentation. 13:33:08 <ashimema> atheia.. I think you just vounteered to write the housebound docs patch ;) 13:33:09 <kidclamp> ashimema want to write something up for devmeeting and send to lists? 13:33:10 <tcohen> I think enhancements are filled with longer descriptions for inclusion in the release announcement, but that might not be enough for the manual 13:33:28 <cait> hm i might have been wrong, can't spot it 13:33:31 <cait> so we shoudl have one 13:33:34 <atheia> ashimema: seems only fair. 13:33:41 <ashimema> will try to fit it in kidclamp :) 13:34:28 <kidclamp> #info ashimema proposed doc requirements for new enhancements will try to have proposal fro next dev meeting 13:34:29 <cait> kidclamp: action a coding guideline for that? 13:34:37 <cait> :) 13:35:04 <cait> once we have the workflow down and documented, we could also have a documentation day/documentation party 13:35:07 <ashimema> the bit that was holding me back on that front was it's wasn't hugely clear how to submit doc patches at the time I was trying to go through it. 13:35:19 <ashimema> cait++ 13:35:24 <cait> that's all from me 13:35:30 <kidclamp> cait++ 13:35:36 <cait> rangi++ 13:35:36 <kidclamp> alright, anything else or move to Kohacon? 13:35:37 <thd> All programs should also be written to display their own documentation on command. 13:35:47 <oleonard> i 13:35:48 <Joubu> I do not think the dev should provide the whole doc, but at least enough info to explain the doc team to understand it easily 13:35:53 <cait> he came up with it, just have to write it up now 13:36:00 <Joubu> Is that what we are saying? 13:36:05 <cait> i think that makes sense 13:36:07 <kidclamp> yes, devs can write in dev speak with basic feature 13:36:15 <ashimema> I believe so Joubu 13:36:18 <cait> yeah, the technical descriptions are good 13:36:27 <cait> but sometimes we miss the user understandable part :) 13:36:29 <BobB> if devs start the doco, non-devs can improve it 13:36:48 <Joubu> ok perfect 13:36:53 <atheia> But it should definitely be a patch to the manual, not just in perlpod or some such, right? 13:37:06 <ashimema> so there's at least a starting point in the docs for anyone to embellish.. if you've done development write you'll have written a spec for the enhancement and that spec should go a long way towards becoming a documentation :) 13:37:29 <Joubu> my understanding was that the dev should fill the "text for the release notes" field on bugz 13:37:35 <barton> I think we also need to test documentation... 13:37:36 <Joubu> s/should/must 13:37:37 <ashimema> patch to the manual in my opinion.. partially depends... but that'll come down to the QAer reviewing it ;) 13:38:09 <cait> for the moment rangi and i iwll be able to merge 13:38:13 <kidclamp> I think as long as they can provide the text in the bug we can see about patch submission 13:38:18 <ashimema> I see 'text for release notes' as a minor summary of what the feature does.. whereas the docs are more of a 'how to use this new shiny feature' 13:38:22 <barton> ... i.e. have people follow instructions and make sure that they work, and are understandable. 13:38:23 <cait> i think no qa yet for the manual, but that would be nice once we actually have documentation written :) 13:38:34 <cait> ashimema +1 13:39:19 <kidclamp> moving us on 13:39:26 <Joubu> wait 13:39:32 * kidclamp pauses 13:39:40 <atheia> Yeah I'm with kidclamp, barton and ashimema here: a new feature should provide a text that at least describes what the feature does and how you use it, as part of the bug. 13:39:43 <Joubu> then we need the "text for release notes" + a comment with a "doc" tag for instance? 13:39:54 <atheia> Not sure whether it should be in "text for the release notes" or somewhere else. 13:39:57 <Joubu> to explain more deeply what the ft does/how it works? 13:40:12 <atheia> Yeah, Joubu, I would think so? 13:40:16 <ashimema> so for ptfs-e's patches these days we're slowly moving to more of a team inclusive model.. support + customer refined a spec, dev develops it, support turns spec + development screenshots into documentation.. dev submits the feature along with the docs.. 13:40:27 <ashimema> that's a model I'd love to see taken more widely. 13:40:28 <cait> oh just one mor ething: we got 2 shiny new chapters for the web installer and the onboarding tool! 13:40:35 <Joubu> will be a mess to find it in the comment of bugz, but maybe the tag can help 13:40:41 <cait> if you want to check that out :) 13:40:52 <kidclamp> #info manual has new chapters for web installer and the onboarding tool! (shiny new chapters) 13:40:54 <atheia> Couldn't one simply add it as a non-patch attachment? 13:41:27 <kidclamp> I like that idea 13:41:30 <ashimema> I'll talk to cait and rangi about docs patches workflow 13:41:47 <cait> i think if you attached to the bug report a 'docs team' could use it 13:41:48 <kidclamp> I like this discussion but think we should send to list and work up proposal fro dev meeting 13:41:50 <cait> but we need to found one :) 13:41:53 <ashimema> personally.. I'd like to see a pull request opened on the doc gitlab and a link to it from the bugzilla bug 13:41:53 <Joubu> let's move on and vote for the guidelines next dev meeting? 13:41:56 <ashimema> yup 13:42:04 <ashimema> agreed.. lets move on.. :) 13:42:09 <cait> ashimema: kidn of how we want it to work 13:42:11 <cait> merge request tho 13:42:16 <cait> pull is github 13:42:35 <kidclamp> #action cait ashimema rangi will talk manual submissions for enhancments and prepare for dev meeting 13:42:36 <ashimema> merge/pull.. same thing ;) 13:42:41 <kidclamp> @topic KohaCon 13:42:42 <huginn> kidclamp: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready 13:42:42 <tcohen> the manual is a lot about style and ways of telling a message 13:42:46 <kidclamp> #topic KohaCon 13:42:57 <tcohen> I think the doc managers should be the ones to talk to devs 13:43:02 <tcohen> or the other way around 13:43:09 <kidclamp> schnydszch, around? 13:43:09 <tcohen> but no need to add a new guideline 13:43:32 <schnydszch> Hi all! Eugene here from Manila, Philippines 13:43:44 <schnydszch> Yes kidclamp. 13:43:44 <wahanui> Sandwich King of the Northeast 13:44:28 <schnydszch> Just to update you all, kohacon2017 is just two weeks. The organizers are pretty excited and working double time. 13:45:09 <schnydszch> The current registration stands at 275 participants, 50+ foreign, 200+ local. 13:45:46 <kidclamp> #info Kohacon2017 is 2 weeks away - 275 participants - excitement is high :-) 13:46:06 <schnydszch> We posted a week before regarding the situation in the Southern part of the Philippines which is 2000 km away from Makati City 13:47:07 <kidclamp> #info see lists for update about situation in souther phillipines 13:47:08 <cait> is it still possible to register? 13:47:14 <cait> I know of someone in Manila who woud like to attend 13:47:19 <schnydszch> The organizers have seek security clearance from local police. The venue has its own security so we assure safety of the participants during the event 13:47:37 <kidclamp> #info he organizers have seek security clearance from local police. The venue has its own security so we assure safety of the participants during the event 13:47:45 <schnydszch> to those who want to register, they can email us at kohacon17@gmail.com or aslplibrarians@gmail.com 13:48:06 <schnydszch> *who still want to register 13:48:18 <kidclamp> #info to who still need to register may email kohacon17@gmail.com or aslplibrarians@gmail.com 13:48:27 <cait> thx schnydszch - i will forward that 13:49:24 <kidclamp> anything more schnydszch? 13:49:26 <schnydszch> Paul Poulain and Gaetan Boisson will be coming over. Joann Ransom declined participation upon hearing the isolated accident which happened at Resorts World Manila, that some media tagged it as done by ISIS 13:51:03 <schnydszch> ..But recent investigation, it's only done by a lone gunman. But we assure the participants safety during the event as we already seek security clearance from local police 13:51:33 <schnydszch> Can I say something re: sponsor? 13:51:54 <kidclamp> yes 13:53:08 <schnydszch> Yeah I see BWS people here, nick and nathan, will you still be donating for kohacon2017? We're still willing to accept donations :) 13:53:34 <oleonard> :D 13:53:37 <schnydszch> We're working on the livestream part, we've got some volunteers from a local university 13:54:18 <schnydszch> who will be helping us for the livestream and event video. 13:54:42 <kidclamp> #info working on livestream and video for kohacon2017 13:55:01 <thd> schnydszch: Will you be recording the livestream? 13:55:12 <schnydszch> yep 13:55:31 <cait> ++ 13:55:33 <cait> :) 13:55:41 <thd> :) 13:55:48 <kidclamp> schnydszch++ 13:55:53 <tcohen> schnydszch++ 13:56:00 <kidclamp> anything more or set time for next meeting? 13:56:44 <kidclamp> #topic Next meeting 13:56:47 <schnydszch> nothing else, if you have questions 13:57:18 <kidclamp> July 5th, 20 UTC? 13:57:28 <tcohen> +1 13:57:50 <Joubu> kidclamp: did not we switch with 21? 13:57:55 <thd> Have we been using 21? 13:58:22 <kidclamp> we can do 21, that works for NZ better - but I didn't know if it ciost us anyone so trying it intermittently 13:58:27 <thd> Also, is 5th to close to US independence day for good participation? 13:58:27 <kidclamp> 21 is good for me 13:58:34 <thd> s/to/too/ 13:58:49 <BobB> better for AU too 13:58:57 <kidclamp> I think most should be at work on the 5th 13:59:02 * oleonard agrees 13:59:38 <kidclamp> July 5th 21 UTC 13:59:46 <thd> Yes, good the dates fall for good return. 14:00:12 <thd> Sadly, KohaCon dates overlap ALA this year. 14:00:29 * oleonard will take a break from sharpening sticks and hoarding gasoline in his post-apocalyptic fear-cave to attend the meeting 14:00:50 <kidclamp> last chance for dissent on date 14:00:51 <BobB> LOL 14:01:07 <kidclamp> #info next meeting: July 5, 2017, 21 UTC 14:01:16 <kidclamp> #endmeeting