14:02:55 <caroline> #startmeeting Documentation IRC meeting 14 August 2018 14:02:55 <huginn`> Meeting started Tue Aug 14 14:02:55 2018 UTC. The chair is caroline. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:02:55 <huginn`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:02:55 <huginn`> The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_irc_meeting_14_august_2018' 14:03:17 <caroline> #topic Introductions 14:03:35 <caroline> (please use "#info" in front of your introduction to have it show up in the automatic minutes) 14:03:53 <caroline> Oh right, wahanui is not here 14:03:58 <Joubu> #info Jonathan Druart 14:04:08 <caroline> #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro 14:04:41 <caroline> cait? 14:04:41 <ashimema> #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe 14:04:47 <cait> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 14:04:52 <cait> sorry, too easily distracted today 14:05:25 <caroline> #topic What's been done so far 14:06:02 <caroline> So LeeJ is not here, I guess he would be more up to date as to what has been done 14:06:22 <cait> i think we have some patches waiting to be merged right now 14:06:28 <cait> like your work on homebound? 14:06:28 <caroline> I've seen that there are a couple of merge requests on gitlab 14:06:31 <lucyvh> #info Lucy Vaux-Harvey, PTFS Europe 14:06:46 <georgew> #info George Williams, NEKLS 14:07:25 <caroline> Yes, about homebound, maybe you've seen my rant on Taiga 14:07:33 * ashimema reminds himself whats on the taiga 14:07:35 <cait> ah, not got the email, maybe i shoudl check! 14:07:44 <cait> caroline: can you share a link maybe? 14:07:58 <cait> you can use #link for the logs 14:07:59 <caroline> one sec 14:08:20 <cait> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Documentation_IRC_meeting_14_August_2018 Agenda 14:08:26 <cait> logs = minutes 14:08:58 * ashimema finds taiga hard to navigate 14:09:27 <caroline> #link https://tree.taiga.io/project/ldjamison-kohadocs-1805/task/561 14:09:49 <cait> ii ttakes a little getting used to, but i like it 14:09:53 <caroline> I was thinking we could get someone who's using the module to maybe write a use case? 14:10:09 <caroline> Sorry, context: 14:10:14 <ashimema> this one: https://tree.taiga.io/project/ldjamison-kohadocs-1805/task/561 14:10:38 <caroline> I wrote the housebound section, but I'm having a hard time getting an idea how this would be used in real life 14:10:41 <ashimema> lucyvh: do we have any internal docs regarding housebound we can share to help caroline 14:10:47 <cait> ashimema: you have some using it i think? 14:11:13 <cait> i think the functionality in Koha is not the issue... but as she states, how to you actually use the features for organizing the workflow 14:11:17 <cait> i think maybe reports? 14:11:36 <cait> and caroline++ :) 14:11:44 <caroline> :) 14:12:00 <cait> i am totally with you on explaining how to use things real life 14:12:43 <ashimema> I just asked one of our trainers above ^ if we have some internal docs we can share.. it's been a while since we've trained it though.. customers use it.. but not large numbers of them 14:13:17 <caroline> do they have like procedures that they use? I could include that in the section maybe? 14:13:27 <cait> #action ashimea to see about sharing internal docs for homebound/real use case info 14:13:36 <cait> hm not sure i can action, but like that :) 14:13:42 <ashimema> yeah.. she typo'd that.. can't be me ;) 14:13:42 <lucyvh> We've probably got a training powerpoint, not any scenarios though 14:13:56 <caroline> thank you cait, I keep forgetting :) 14:14:37 <ashimema> thanks lucyvh 14:14:47 <caroline> lucyvh: can you send the ppt to me? I'll see if I can get more info out of it 14:15:28 <lucyvh> Caroline, will do 14:15:35 <caroline> thanks! 14:15:52 <caroline> #action lucyvh will send training ppt to caroline 14:16:06 <cait> :) 14:16:33 <caroline> anybody else want to share what they've done? 14:16:53 <cait> I've rewritten patron import a bit and updated it - i think it needs to be merged still 14:17:06 <cait> and i've split up another chapter on LeeJ's request 14:17:14 <caroline> yes, I'm looking at the merge requests right now 14:17:22 <caroline> #link https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-manual/merge_requests 14:17:34 <caroline> I see ashimema has been active too 14:17:40 <cait> https://tree.taiga.io/project/ldjamison-kohadocs-1805/task/440 14:18:11 <ashimema> not all that recently.. but I am trying to set an example by submitting a docs patch along with any developments we submit of late 14:18:14 <cait> ashimema++ 14:18:33 <caroline> cool! ashimema++ 14:19:31 <caroline> Joubu has also been adding issues to gitlab 14:20:18 <caroline> maybe we can talk about this in the next topic 14:20:25 <caroline> #topic Workflows 14:21:04 <caroline> Who added the https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Editing_the_Koha_Manual to the section? 14:21:22 <cait> hm? 14:21:30 <cait> sorry, to which section? 14:21:35 <cait> I wrote some of the page 14:21:48 <caroline> There is a bullet point in the Workflow topic about Editing the manual 14:21:59 <cait> aah 14:22:02 <caroline> I'm guessing someone wanted to talk about it 14:22:13 <cait> i think it might have carried over 14:22:21 <cait> from last meetings 14:22:21 <ashimema> davidnind by the looks 14:23:02 <cait> i think it was just there when he added the page from the last one 14:23:17 <cait> but maybe a workflow question would be where to encourage people to add new issues 14:23:24 <cait> not all people have taiga accoutns 14:23:26 <caroline> I don't know if I did that since the last meeting or before, but I added a section to that wiki page about working in a local repository 14:23:43 <cait> shoudl we encourage using the issues on gitlab too or better not? we also have a keyword in bugzilla 14:23:45 <cait> and a module 14:23:59 <cait> caroline++ again for that :) 14:24:52 <caroline> I don't know if I'm being too anal, but I have a feeling we are dispersing the tasks 14:25:18 <caroline> We have a framapad too, in addition to gitlab issues and taiga 14:25:24 <cait> disperse? 14:25:32 <ashimema> mmm.. 14:25:39 <ashimema> I felt that.. there's too many places this stuff lives.. 14:25:39 <cait> ah yes, sorry, had to look up the word :) 14:25:46 <cait> that's my feeling too, too many entry points 14:25:46 <ashimema> It's really hard to know where to look 14:25:56 <cait> i think maybe we could kill the framapad 14:26:04 <cait> i used that before taiga was introduced 14:26:55 <caroline> Could we maybe add a footer in the manual saying that if readers see errors or something that is missing they should file a bug in bugzilla? 14:27:13 <ashimema> do you guys use the WIP flag in your merge requests 14:27:15 <cait> not sure how the footer works, but we could definitely put something in the beginning of the manual 14:27:33 <georgew> If we got rid of the framapad, I'd be in favor of caroline's suggestion about filing a bug in bugzilla 14:27:45 <cait> yes, i think that makes most sense 14:27:56 <cait> encouraging people to use bugzilla is good and registration is easy 14:28:06 <georgew> I come to these meetings mostly so I can tell the people in koh-US what's going on and one of the things I like about the Framapad is that it's easy 14:28:06 <ashimema> to date I've used it to highlight that my submission is awaiting the bug being pushed from bugzilla before it makes sense to go into the manual (adding WIP at the beggining of the merge request name prevent an early merge) 14:28:17 <caroline> on the other hand, the framapad is easy and no registration is needed 14:28:21 <georgew> But, I've never seen anyone that I've encouraged to use it actually use it. 14:28:37 <caroline> georgew: lol! 14:29:42 <caroline> do we have an email address where people who don't have bugzilla account could just send us a quick email? 14:29:45 <cait> looking at it.... we should at least clean it up 14:29:50 <cait> there is a list 14:29:57 <cait> koha-docs i think, sec 14:30:18 <cait> i didn't have power of that in the beginning, but sent LeeJ the password when handing over 14:30:19 <cait> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-docs 14:30:29 <cait> so we have admin there and it should now work as the other lists (I hope) 14:30:44 <cait> but no public archives it appears hm 14:31:00 <cait> maybe requires someone to look over the config 14:31:31 <cait> so we got: framapad, bugzilla, gitlab-issues, taiga and mailing list... 14:31:48 <caroline> Is there a default assignee for documentation bugs on bugzilla? 14:31:52 <georgew> that's too many 14:32:03 <cait> if we keep the framapad I suggest cleaning - and maybe discourage use of gitlab-issues? 14:32:31 <georgew> is there a way to connect gitlab issues and taiga? 14:32:43 <cait> i am not sure 14:33:05 <caroline> There is an integration with gitlab 14:33:25 * ashimema likes gtlab issues + bugzilla.. no idea what going on in taiga or framapad 14:33:33 <ashimema> https://tree.taiga.io/support/integrations/gitlab-integration/ 14:34:24 <caroline> I like taiga more than bugzilla because I find it easier to use, but maybe that's just because I use it more 14:34:35 <caroline> and also, it's prettier! :) 14:35:09 <caroline> I know you devs don't worry about pretty, but it's important! ;) 14:35:41 <cait> hehe 14:35:50 <cait> i think it could still be useful as an internal tool for core docs team 14:35:54 * ashimema isn't a fan of bugzilla.. but it's what the community have been using for dev for ever 14:36:18 <caroline> so we keep bugzilla for sure since it's core to koha 14:36:43 * ashimema likes pretty.. and functional 14:36:54 <bag> bug 14697 14:36:54 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14697 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , Extend and enhance "Claims returned" lost status 14:36:54 <cait> we also have the release notes there and need to refer to it, so i think it makes sense 14:36:56 <caroline> we still have taiga, framapad, gitlab issues and mailing list 14:37:04 <bag> bug 20210 14:37:04 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20210 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jesse, NEW , Claimed Return 14:37:31 <cait> I advertised the mailing list, but if I didn't miss anything, it's not really been used 14:37:32 <georgew> I'm reading the gitlab integration and it looks like if we integrate the two, gitlab issues will get pushed to taiga 14:37:36 <cait> so maybe we can just ignore it for now 14:37:40 <caroline> I haven't seen anything in the mailing list for a while 14:37:45 <cait> or we could have it killed 14:37:59 <georgew> so if we do that, discouraging gitlab issues stops being a problem 14:38:10 <caroline> maybe ppl use the main mailing list for questions relating to the manual 14:38:50 <cait> it's low maint for us right now... so it hink keeping it is not an issue 14:38:55 <caroline> ok 14:39:03 <caroline> framapad? 14:39:04 <cait> the framapad needs someone to look at it regularly 14:39:07 <cait> that's more an issue i think 14:39:18 <cait> mail pushes into your inbox, no need to think about it (mailing list) 14:39:29 <caroline> do we know if there are any changes to framapad recently? 14:39:40 <cait> georgew: do you think registration for bugzilla would be too much of a hurdle if there was no framapad? 14:39:46 <cait> i think it has a time line 14:39:54 <georgew> no, I don't think that's a problem at all 14:39:56 <cait> we could always save a last version too 14:40:47 <caroline> I see that a lot has been added to taiga already 14:41:07 <caroline> I could go through and add the rest and then delete it 14:41:09 <georgew> the biggest barrier for end users is, when they have a problem, they don't know what to do to solve the problem - they don't know who to contact or how to contact them 14:41:12 <cait> +1 14:41:19 <cait> if you can't delete - put a big note to use bugzilla 14:41:20 <cait> :) 14:41:30 <cait> and delete from wiki 14:41:41 <caroline> that's what I think too that's why I was proposing to add a note to the manuel 14:41:45 <caroline> *manual 14:41:52 <georgew> that's why having too many avenues for contact is a bigger problem than having too few 14:42:17 <cait> so maybe just tell them: manual - make a new bug with module "Documentation" 14:42:55 <caroline> #action caroline will go through the framapad and add what needs to be added to taiga and then either close it or send ppl over to bugzilla 14:42:59 <georgew> yes. that's simple enough 14:43:17 <georgew> for my own libraries, I just tell them to tell me 14:43:26 <caroline> we could add a section to the manual on how to file a bug for the manual XD 14:43:29 <georgew> and some of them actually do that 14:43:31 <cait> so we agree recommended point of entry is bugzilla? then we could add it as #agreed 14:43:40 <cait> caroline: +1 14:44:00 <caroline> #agreed the recommended point of entry for documentation issues is bugzilla (module Documentation) 14:44:15 <cait> #idea Add a section to the manual on how to file a bug for the manual 14:44:27 <georgew> cait: +1 14:44:31 <caroline> it was a joke but ok! :) 14:44:36 <cait> no, i like it :) 14:45:03 <caroline> gitlab issues? Joubu seems to use it more? 14:46:07 <caroline> Joubu what are the advantages of this vs the other methods? 14:46:11 <caroline> (is he still here?) 14:46:30 <Joubu> as we moved our sideprojects to gitlab it would make sense to use gitlab 14:46:51 <Joubu> given the numbers of contributors it should not be a problem anyway 14:47:30 <cait> Joubu: the contribs here are librarians 14:47:32 <cait> for filing issues 14:47:36 <cait> i think gitlab might be too scary 14:47:52 <cait> also then they need to differentiate - manual goes to gitlab, others go to bugzilla 14:48:14 <Joubu> I would just say "use whichever it better for you" :) 14:48:26 <cait> maybe as gitlab is not so much used, postpone and see? 14:48:31 <caroline> I think we agreed that bugzilla is for librarians/end users 14:48:42 <cait> yep 14:48:44 <georgew> yes 14:48:44 <caroline> the rest is more of a workflow question 14:48:49 <caroline> for us 14:49:18 <cait> i took careof the only content issueon gitlab 14:49:28 <cait> the others are for how the manual works/is generated 14:49:46 <caroline> ok good to know 14:50:09 <cait> #link https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-manual/issues 14:50:39 <caroline> so we keep bugzilla for end users, taiga for us, gitlab issues for manual generation 14:50:53 <caroline> would that make sense? 14:51:06 <cait> we can try it out :) 14:51:18 <caroline> kill framapad and status quo on the mailing list 14:51:35 <caroline> #info we keep bugzilla for end users, taiga for us, gitlab issues for manual generation 14:51:38 <caroline> #info kill framapad and status quo on the mailing list 14:51:49 <georgew> sounds awesome 14:51:53 <caroline> right, anything else on this topic? 14:52:05 <cait> nope, just that i need to leave soon 14:52:09 <caroline> #topic Next steps 14:52:18 <caroline> We'll go faster 14:52:32 <caroline> There was a discussion point about Translation? 14:52:57 <caroline> anybody want to comment? 14:53:28 <caroline> we can also keep it for next time when LeeJ and/or davidnind are here 14:54:07 <cait> i think also a standing topic 14:54:16 <ashimema> was it translation that was holding back bug 19817 in part? 14:54:16 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19817 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Merge local and online documentations 14:54:16 <cait> could postpone to next meeting 14:54:23 <cait> ashimema: it's solved 14:54:26 <cait> translations work now 14:54:34 <caroline> #info Translation discussion is postponed to next meeting 14:54:49 <caroline> #topic Set time of next meeting 14:54:54 <cait> #link https://koha-community.org/documentation/ Translated 18.05 manuals from Sphinx 14:55:31 <cait> just don't look at the German one - we didn't get very far yet 14:55:42 <caroline> There is already a general meeting on Sept 5 14:55:42 <ashimema> we need a signoff and qa on that bug.. I'm overloading myself with bugs at the minute already.. but I do feel that one should go into master sooner rather than later again 14:55:53 <cait> very true 14:56:09 <cait> bit the same for me right now :( 14:56:26 <cait> i could try and do QA 14:56:30 <caroline> #info bug 19817 need signoff and qa 14:57:40 <cait> move on? 14:57:42 <caroline> is everyone ok for a meeting sept 4? or after kohacon? 14:57:58 <cait> sept 4 would work for me 14:58:12 <georgew> september 4 is good here 14:58:15 <caroline> what time are we at in the rotation? 14:59:03 <caroline> 14UTC is Europe and America only 14:59:06 * Joubu did not pay ashimema to bring attention on 19817 14:59:07 <cait> meeting before this was 21 utc 14:59:17 <caroline> we should do one where NZ is present 14:59:33 <cait> i thnk that's 7 am there 14:59:34 * ashimema may have had to probe Joubu to remind him of the bug number though ;) 14:59:43 <cait> but my calc might be totall yof 14:59:45 <cait> off 15:00:00 <cait> oh yes it is 15:00:05 <cait> 21 shoudlwork for nz 15:00:11 <cait> late in europe - 11pc 15:00:12 <cait> pm 15:00:27 <caroline> ok so 21UTC on sept 4? 15:00:39 <ashimema> :+1: 15:00:48 <cait> +1 15:00:54 <georgew> +1 15:01:12 <caroline> #info Next meeting: 4 september 2019, 21 UTC 15:01:21 <caroline> #endmeeting