14:02:36 #startmeeting General IRC meeting 4 April 2018 14:02:36 Meeting started Wed Apr 4 14:02:36 2018 UTC. The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:02:36 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:02:36 The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_4_april_2018' 14:02:40 #chair Joubu 14:02:40 Current chairs: Joubu kidclamp 14:02:48 #topic Introductions 14:02:48 #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 14:02:52 #info Jonathan Druart 14:02:54 #info Nick Clemens 14:03:07 #info Marcel de Rooy, Rijksmuseum, Netherlands 14:03:18 rmaints? 14:03:18 rumour has it rmaints is kidclamp (17.11), fridolin (17.05), rangi (16.11) 14:03:20 qa_team? 14:03:20 qa_team is alex_a jajm marcelr khall kidclamp tcohen josef_moravec 14:03:25 #info Josef Moravec, Municipal Library Usti nad Orlici, Czech Republic 14:03:34 #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 14:03:41 #info Jesse Maseto, BWS, USA 14:03:43 #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 14:03:55 #info Kelly McElligott BywaterSolutions USA 14:04:20 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_4_April_2018 14:04:30 the agenda is there ^ 14:04:37 #info Alex Arnaud, Biblibre, France 14:05:22 #topic Announcements 14:05:28 floor is open :-) 14:05:59 Kohacon2018 site is up 14:06:21 #info KohaCon 2018 site is up 14:06:25 link jessem 14:06:45 registration and more info here: http://kohacon2018.bywatersolutions.com/ 14:07:04 #link http://kohacon2018.bywatersolutions.com/ For registration and info 14:07:21 #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, USA 14:07:37 #info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, India. 14:07:51 #info Portland is full of craft beers 14:08:41 moving on :-) 14:08:58 #topic Update on releases: 14:09:34 #info Maintainers are working, April 22nd is sunday so release will happen 24/25 14:09:52 anything to add fridolin1? 14:10:08 nope thanks 14:10:34 #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre, France 14:10:39 Joubu, all yours 14:11:08 yes, I have written few points before the meeting, here they are: 14:11:13 * 18.05 release dates have been published (should be on May 22th) 14:11:17 #info 18.05 is planned for May 22th 14:11:21 #link https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2018-April/050306.html 14:11:28 Final stretch for big/medium works, if you want your stuffs in for 18.05 it's now 14:11:53 * Performances - I have done some benchmarks yesterday (compare 16.05 with master (~18.05)) using misc4dev/benchmark_them_all, I have not noticed big performance problems. 14:12:00 I wanted to test/confirm the last refactoring patches pushed (especially the Koha::Patron move) did not introduce performance gap 14:12:03 At first glance it seems ok, but it would be great to benchmark specific areas instead of using the basic_workflow.t selenium tests (which only provides us a very wide overview) 14:12:43 if you face you feel perf issues since the last 3,4 releases, please contact me with info 14:12:53 if you face *or* feel* 14:13:06 * Related topic: selenium tests. 14:13:12 I am in touch with alexbuckley to continue the work on writing these tests (bug 19384 is the omnibus). 14:13:12 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19384 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, chris, NEW , [OMNIBUS] Add Selenium tests 14:13:14 I'd like to see them part of 18.05 and will do all what I need for that (skip SO and QA as nobody usually cares much about these tests). 14:13:25 * ES - There is a huge lack of tests for the elastic code, we are wandering in the dark without protection - warning! 14:13:33 #info if any performance issues noted in recent releases please contact Joubu 14:13:41 (I do not plan to work on that) 14:14:05 * EDI - Same here... No enhancement should be accepted without full test coverage 14:14:06 #info Selenium tests will be pushed, comment on bugs if you have comments or concerns 14:14:17 (I do not think there are anyway) 14:14:37 I do not have anything else in mind 14:14:41 #info ElasticSearch needs more exhaustive test coverage (kidclamp,alex_a,ere) please take note 14:14:54 #info EDI could also use more test coverage 14:15:56 we have a note about TT syntax, cait or documenters here to ask for what they need> 14:16:25 ha, I guess it is for me 14:16:46 I have opened and worked on bug 17961 few months ago 14:16:46 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17961 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, RESOLVED FIXED, TT syntax for notices - Prove we have an equivalent for our historical custom syntax 14:17:10 do we still need such tests for any TT change ? 14:17:15 I do not think we are ready for make it defaults for 18.05, but could be a nice goal for 18.11 14:17:26 marcelr: that's the problem, I do not know 14:17:44 I cannot remember the state it was when I left the job months ago 14:17:52 i would say no, but ... 14:18:19 we do not know, so we are not ready :) 14:18:35 but we could advertize it for 18.05 and tell people it can be tested 14:18:51 at least for the letter codes with test coverage 14:19:30 these ones must work (i.e. you can write the letter template using the TT syntax without regressions) 14:19:38 others need to be double-checked 14:19:56 so is work left to be done to convert the old style notices to new ones? 14:19:57 we should also update the wiki page I guess 14:20:17 not really, this part is easy 14:20:29 I think we should: 1. advertize it to make people use it 14:20:32 2. get feedback 14:20:48 3. make sure the other letter codes (the ones without tests) can be moved 14:20:57 4. improve and add tests if not 14:21:05 5. update the wiki page 14:21:13 6. make it the default for 18.11 14:21:38 1. will not happen so we will have 7. get feedbacks too late 14:21:43 8. bug fixes and backport 14:21:55 9. break the notices and spam the users 14:22:03 ;) 14:22:33 #info TT syntax should be advertised and tested for feedback and bugs/improvements filed with an eye towards default in 18.11 14:23:08 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 14:23:10 sorry for being late 14:23:35 someone wants to add something for the TT syntax? 14:23:48 i have to read back, but please feel free to continue 14:24:02 ok, then I forgot something in the RM announcements: 14:24:49 you must update the release notes for bug reports with the "release-notes-needed" keywords 14:25:29 it will help the documentation team and fill the release notes to document the new features/enh 14:25:31 i agree with the plan as outlined - advertise and encourage people to start using TT - switch with 18.11 for default ones 14:25:55 you should not ignore this, I will send an email to the list 14:26:25 push if filled ? 14:26:37 marcelr: revert if not filled 14:26:39 already pushed 14:26:48 #info bugs with "release-notes_needed" keywords must be updated with release notes, this helps documentation team. Joubu will email the list 14:26:50 and probably not always revertable, but it's not hard to do, I think we will be ok 14:27:49 #link https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?keywords=release-notes-needed&keywords_type=allwords&list_id=234854&query_format=advanced Release notes needed bugs 14:28:38 moving on? 14:29:00 ok for me 14:29:13 yep 14:29:16 #topic General discussion 14:29:42 #info Revive @kohails twitter? 14:29:55 do we have the login? 14:30:00 I have contacted Nicole few months ago to get the credential for the twitter account 14:30:03 so I have it 14:30:08 Joubu++ 14:30:19 David Nind here? 14:30:21 Yes! I'm happy to volunteer... 14:30:23 but I am not good at that and I think we should revive it a bit 14:30:24 i think a bad time for him 14:30:27 nz 14:30:30 wakes up... 14:30:32 aah 14:30:41 davidnind++ 14:30:44 someone told me that https://tweetdeck.twitter.com can be used for this kind of usage 14:30:59 #info PLEASE add yourself to the Kohaq IRC regulars page - 'regular' is a very loosely defined term :-) 14:31:17 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/IRC_Regulars Koha IRC regulars 14:31:18 like: do not share the credential with several people, but create a team and allow them to post as @kohails 14:31:56 do you have to use a special app to do this? 14:32:23 app? it's a website 14:32:27 aah even better 14:32:35 Would be good to have a team 14:32:36 soudns good to me, and we got a volunteer :) 14:32:40 you login in as usual 14:32:45 then you have a different view 14:32:48 shoudl we also post reminders about meetings and such 14:32:49 ? 14:33:02 it's provided by twitter, I have never used it but sounds like what we need 14:33:11 you can schedule tweets etc with it too 14:33:27 yes, looks like one person can login and designate a team to use the account 14:33:33 would alos be good for GBSD 14:33:36 and manage multiple accounts at once 14:33:39 yep 14:33:44 @later tell calire GBSD? ;-) 14:33:44 kidclamp: The operation succeeded. 14:33:47 Didn't have a chance to create a general plan - e.g regular tweets about meetings, etc 14:34:03 at least magnuse and I have the credentials for the GBSD account 14:34:08 Tweetdeck looks useful 14:34:14 me too somewhere 14:34:17 I think it's the job of several people 14:34:29 os there something that should NOT go on there? 14:34:39 nengard had used some program through which she sent notices to multiple platforms including Twitter. Such multisite programs may become broken from time to time of course. 14:34:41 can't think of something right now 14:34:44 things like: "like this tweet from this support company" or "from this library", etc. should also be done, right? 14:34:57 should twitter avatars be listed on release teams page, so one knows who to contact? 14:35:13 i think generally retweeting 'good news' about koha is a good thing 14:36:11 use to raise awareness of all the good things happening 14:36:16 yep 14:36:21 ..as well 14:36:57 ok, so what's the next step? 14:37:00 i think we are all for it? 14:37:19 basically contact me if you want to join the "twitter/communication/news monitoring" and we/you try it? 14:37:21 yes! 14:38:01 #info Contact Joubu to be added to the KohaILS twitter team, we will see how it goes 14:38:01 We could update this page then: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Social_Networks 14:38:16 my main concern is: we should avoid conflict of interest, that's why a "team" could be a good thing 14:38:29 I think we shoudl probably update a lot more of it, but starting with Twitter would be good 14:38:41 (there was/is something on the kanban about that) 14:38:43 #info Team members shoudl eb added to Koha on Social Networks page 14:38:45 will create a plan for Twitter use 14:38:53 davidnind 14:38:53 somebody said davidnind was happy to help maintain if more help is required - the criteria are quite clear, and what it means is quite clear as well 14:38:56 davidnind 14:38:56 it has been said that davidnind is happy to help maintain if more help is required - the criteria are quite clear, and what it means is quite clear as well 14:38:59 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Social_Networks Koha on Social Networks 14:39:00 davidnind++ 14:39:12 ("that", the Koha_on_Social_Networks wiki page) 14:39:15 plus was not workign :) 14:39:53 8-) 14:40:20 davidnind, you are up about YouTube too :-) 14:40:33 okay.. 14:41:19 #topic Setup an 'official' Koha YouTube channel 14:41:21 think it would be useful to have an 'official' Koha Community channel 14:41:31 there is one - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqOmLE1-kt84liiG5233BRQ 14:41:46 created by tcohen after the KohaCon14 in Cordoba 14:42:00 haven't had a chance to write an RFC 14:42:14 excellent video by the way! 14:42:32 there is a mention on a koha youtube channel on the wiki page for kohacon 14:42:38 but i am not sure it eixsts/existed 14:42:49 https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/4628007?hl=en 14:42:49 lots of uses for community as a whole 14:42:55 https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Processes_for_KohaCons 14:43:10 we also got the manual editing video from LeeJ and some others we could add 14:43:11 so add to social netowrks and similar process to get aded to team? tcohen has the credentials? 14:43:29 ah oops, misread 14:44:03 how does adding to a channel work? admins tag the videos or so? 14:44:47 davidnind, can you get info from tcohen and write up how it works? then team can be assembled and updated as needed on wiki? 14:44:47 my link was the "Koha" channel 14:44:48 can create play lists with source from anywhere 14:45:12 (misread too, forget my last comment) 14:45:25 we got one, we just have to use it - that's good news :) 14:45:52 yes, we should.. 14:45:59 can one video be published in muliple channels? 14:46:25 Editing the manual with gitlab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiwH7-wO2Gs 14:47:07 getting long in the meeting, I think if no one is opposed david can go ahead with some work/RFC and we can move on? 14:47:09 important that any original videos be published to a more open platform, such as Internet Archive as well 14:47:35 cait do you mean multiple channels other than playlists? 14:47:53 I think I don't know much about Youtube :) that's ok, will check later 14:47:55 move on kidclamp 14:48:01 action? 14:48:02 agreed, so I can go back to zzzzz :-D 14:48:05 davidmind++ 14:48:16 #topic Merge local and online documentations (Bug 19817) 14:48:16 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19817 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Merge local and online documentations 14:49:04 that's for me again 14:49:10 unless cait wants to explain? :) 14:49:26 I will try 14:49:33 I am a bit tired to bring this topic up :) 14:49:36 ok, at the moment the manual and the help files are too complete separate things 14:49:43 which means: they fall out of sync 14:49:53 more: translators have to translate both separately 14:50:19 :'( 14:50:20 so this is not ideal, especially as we don't have the time to spare 14:50:38 we worked out the suggestion to link to the manual instead of copying it into TT files 14:50:58 the patch also implements an option for having a local copy of the manual by making the URL configurable 14:51:18 there are still some glitches, we need to figure out, like how to link to the right and existing translated manual 14:51:34 the positive sides are: no more duplication, one translation to rule them all 14:51:36 that's almost done 14:51:51 the negative sides are: for now it will not be possible to edit the help files locally any more 14:52:12 and: as we delete the current help files, those translations will be lost by linking to the documentation instead 14:52:34 I think the main questions are if we can live with those negatives 14:52:39 cait: A workaround for local editing should be found. 14:52:46 => because of the lack of feedbacks which makes me think people is not interested in that and I do not want to dev something that will not be used 14:52:47 I am not sure it's used 14:52:48 is the online help text just deleted ? 14:52:53 at the moment your local edits are killed by the update 14:52:55 without notice 14:53:06 i dont mean local changes 14:53:07 Joubu^ 14:53:08 it's never been implemented in a clean way 14:53:13 I think Joubu fell asleep :-) or is looking at portland craft beers 14:53:18 #info PLease look at bug 19817 and comment if can be considered for 18.05 14:53:18 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19817 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Merge local and online documentations 14:53:34 kidclamp: ? 14:53:35 marcelr: with the patch the files will be deleted, yes 14:53:37 totally support, makes sense to me 14:53:38 I am around 14:53:38 woops, sorty, all my messages were delayed 14:53:49 just got last few minutes all at once 14:53:56 if we add something back later, we were thinkging about allowing custom pages 14:54:01 instead of actually changing th emanual 14:54:12 because that is really hard to do nicely without creating conflicts on update 14:54:25 but for now it would not be implemented 14:54:25 we will delete stuff in the templates that should have gone to manual too.. 14:54:37 which will be stored in DB and survive upgrades 14:54:39 marcelr: afaik nicole only copied from manual to help files 14:54:48 and git still knows it all if the docs team needs something 14:55:02 It may be that local editing is very little used now, however, the possibility should be considered without necessarily implementing it for the prospect of it becoming a blocker to adoption by important future users. 14:55:09 people incl me have added in online pages 14:55:21 other way around.. 14:55:29 docs team could check the commits to help files maybe 14:55:37 marcelr: me too, that was wrong :) 14:55:50 not wrong, just our situation is complicated now :) 14:56:04 my feeling is: we do not get feedback and so we should move on and get feedback later 14:56:04 I can talk to LeeJ about adding this to the docs kanban? 14:56:12 and adapt what we implemented 14:56:37 so question is: do we want it for 18.05 or later? 14:57:00 one flow is an improvement but rescuing some new docs could motivate people to keep writing docs 14:57:06 we did a good work on documentation in 18.05 so I feel like to should be part of 18.05 14:57:16 18.05+ 14:57:18 my feeling is yes 14:57:24 18.05++ 14:57:33 i think looking at the commits and proting them over would also be a good beginners task maybe 14:57:35 for docs team 14:57:47 I am for 18.05 too 14:57:54 18.05++ 14:58:08 i will beo n qa until freezes, but can try and help after 14:58:42 18.05 14:58:45 http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=history;f=koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/help;h=6fa92739d87a2193baa4c2352d82cfbe1dcde5f3;hb=8538886cb91f977d6109bfd035d4d8348ad108dc 14:58:49 I will be available to improve and implement what is missing, if someone asks for something 14:59:04 it's some, but not that many in total since nicole left 14:59:18 ok thanks, then you can SO and QA and I will push ;) 14:59:57 kidclamp: action me for talking to LeeJ plz? 15:00:27 #action cait will touch base with LeeJ re 19817 15:00:44 moving on? 15:00:49 +1 15:01:13 #topic MARC Holdings Records RFC 15:01:19 ere_away? 15:01:23 i added it :) 15:01:36 ere was asking about feedback on the mailing list 15:02:00 we are currently working on a program to sync Koha holdings with our union catlaog and we miss the holdings level 15:02:09 #info Mark Tompsett 15:02:19 i think an optional holdings level is a good idea for that kind of thing and would like to ask people to give feedback 15:02:24 https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_Holdings_Records_RFC 15:02:31 especially if you have worked with MARC holdings records - maybe in other ILS 15:02:37 thx davidnind 15:02:39 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_Holdings_Records_RFC Holdings RFC 15:02:59 So is the idea of holdings to allow the integration of multiple kinds of holdings? UNIMARC, MARC21, whatever? 15:03:11 any tips of how I can accomplish this? I mean, adding a page to my opac interface 15:03:14 https://snag.gy/pOn9zH.jpg 15:03:14 marc holdings records goes between items and records 15:03:17 it's a structural thing 15:03:26 please, I see it really useful 15:03:39 Freddy_Enrique: We are in the middle of a meeting right now 15:03:55 * mtompset points to the topic line above. 15:03:56 ups, sorry 15:04:08 #link http://www.loc.gov/marc/holdings/ MARC21 for Holdings Data (MFHD) 15:04:38 you use the holdings format of your marc format 15:04:40 that wouldn't change 15:04:54 if you use marc21 - you have hodlings in marc21 15:05:14 UNIMARC has holdings too - https://archive.ifla.org/VI/8/projects/UNIMARC-HoldingsFormat.pdf 15:05:42 it's more like a summary record that can group items, or for records without items make a statement of what your holdings are 15:05:45 often they are used for serials 15:06:01 hope that made sense 15:06:08 all from me, if there are no questions :) 15:06:16 mtompset: Are you proposing to also encompass the bugbear of serials pattern holdings? 15:06:41 cait++ 15:06:42 * mtompset shrugs, "I'm not a librarian. I didn't understand the purpose of the concept." 15:06:46 it's designed ot be optional, but i guess you could catalog them, if you wanted to 15:06:51 I did not see mention of serials in any description. 15:07:08 but it's not supposed to be used by serials module in the rfc 15:07:34 #info respond on the list or comment on the RFC or poke cait for more discussion of holdings :-) 15:07:40 I just noticed "marcflavour" in the table suggestions, and thought it might be a cool way to Z39.50 from differing sources (UNIMARC and MARC21) 15:07:43 better poke ere_away 15:07:50 just trying to move things along :) 15:08:04 #info or poke Ere about the Holdings RFC 15:08:14 mtompset: i think that's a copy from the biblio_metadata 15:08:20 anything else, or next meeting? 15:08:29 Oh, okay. 15:08:51 should not we email the general mailing list as well? 15:08:51 kidclamp: +1 15:09:12 April 18, 2018 20 UTC? 15:09:31 mtompset: Koha is built at installation with only one marcflavour which is not as flexible as it could/should be one day. 15:09:33 Joubu: i am not sure which list it was on 15:09:45 kidclamp: nope it's general meeting now, +1m 15:09:58 ah, thnaks joubu 15:10:12 May 4th, 2018 20 UTC? 15:10:17 cait: it has been sent to koha-devel only 15:10:24 may the force... 15:10:49 kidclamp: why a Friday? :) 15:11:09 should be May 2nd I think 15:11:13 * kidclamp needs more coffe 15:11:21 May 2nd, 2018 20 UTC? 15:11:35 yep 15:11:46 or 21 15:11:51 21 15:11:52 * Joubu never knows 15:12:05 Where can I vote for 21 now? 15:12:10 21 is fine 15:12:23 usually first wedneday 15:12:46 21 is 9am for NZ, so probably good 15:12:47 21 is still a problem but 20 is worst. 15:12:54 #info Next meeting: 2 May 2018, 21 UTC 15:13:00 Joubu++ 15:13:06 Is good! https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Koha+General+IRC+Meeting&iso=20180502T2100 15:13:09 #endmeeting