14:01:38 <ashimema> #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019 14:01:38 <huginn`> Meeting started Wed Jul 10 14:01:38 2019 UTC. The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:01:38 <huginn`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:01:38 <huginn`> The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_july_2019' 14:01:56 <ashimema> #chair cait 14:01:56 <huginn`> Current chairs: ashimema cait 14:01:58 <ashimema> #topic Introductions 14:02:08 <thd> #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 14:02:09 <ashimema> #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe 14:03:08 <fridolin> #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre France 14:03:21 <ashimema> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_10_July_2019 Agenda 14:04:52 <ashimema> I'm sure cait was here a minute ago 14:05:34 <cait> oh yes 14:05:40 <ashimema> coudl be a short one if that's all we've got 14:05:50 <cait> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 14:06:07 * cait pings random people 14:06:09 <cait> rmaints? 14:06:09 <wahanui> rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea 14:06:26 <fridolin> all is good 14:06:31 <cait> khall bag tcohen 14:06:33 <fridolin> sorry I'm a bit late on backport 14:06:34 <cait> Joubu 14:06:41 <ashimema> #topic Announcements 14:07:35 <cait> nothing fromme 14:07:43 <fridolin> I made a new plugin https://github.com/biblibre/koha-plugin-theme-intranet-lsd 14:07:50 <ashimema> #info The first set of maintanence releases have gone out since the last meeting.. Thanks to the RMaints :) 14:07:59 * tcohen is heading downtown, sorry 14:08:10 <ashimema> lol 14:08:26 <ashimema> moving on then 14:08:30 <ashimema> #topic Update from the Release manager 14:09:13 <ashimema> Things are ticking along... I'm currently blocked by failing tests on Jenkins but have tcohen on the case (as I've reached a dead end with my own efforts) 14:09:16 <ashimema> teamwork++ 14:10:52 <ashimema> that's pretty much it from me.. 14:10:59 <ashimema> #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers 14:11:08 <ashimema> rmaints? 14:11:08 <wahanui> rmaints is, like, fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea 14:11:08 * ashimema grr, forgot to info my update 14:11:19 <cait> heh 14:11:33 <wizzyrea> #info liz rea 14:12:04 <wizzyrea> things are going along from my point of view 14:12:47 <ashimema> any updates fridolin 14:12:47 <ashimema> or wizzyrea 14:12:47 <wahanui> i heard wizzyrea was very glad the git repo is reliably working todya 14:13:00 <fridolin> nothing special in 19.05.x 14:13:06 <wizzyrea> nothing special in 18.05.x 14:13:07 <fridolin> sorry i'm a bit late on pushing 14:13:34 <ashimema> no worries :) 14:13:34 <ashimema> ok.. moving onto QA then 14:13:34 <cait> #info maintenance releases are moving along nicely 14:13:35 <ashimema> #topic Updates from the QA team 14:13:53 <cait> we are a bit low on QA time right now is my general feeling 14:14:30 <cait> #info Number of bad bugs on the dashboard are too high - 3 blockers, 4 criticals, 22 majors 14:14:41 <wizzyrea> ohh that's gross 14:14:50 * wizzyrea makes a note 14:14:53 <cait> #info Please focus on bugs for now if time is low - we need to make sure they are taken care of 14:15:10 <cait> it's not only QA there, missing patches, SO.... a mix 14:15:21 <cait> so really everyone can help there ;) 14:15:26 * ashimema would be interested to see a graph of QA activity over a few cycles.. it would be interesting to see if there's a patturn to the ebbs adn flows 14:15:29 <wizzyrea> :D 14:15:47 <cait> I think it feels like the European summer 'hole' right now 14:15:55 <cait> probably a German term 14:15:59 <wizzyrea> yeah it's holiday time 14:16:11 <cait> things just slow down a lot - but it's a little unnerving for those who are still here :) 14:16:22 <ashimema> admitedly only three of those are in the QA queue right now.. 14:16:32 <cait> I've also inlcuded some new contributors in my weekly QA email, there are quite a few in NSO 14:16:39 <cait> please be nice 14:16:49 <cait> #info Be nice to people starting out - new contributors :) 14:16:59 <ashimema> there's a few in NSO and more in need of some code submitting 14:17:18 <cait> ashimema: that's correct - it's really an all-community-task 14:17:49 <cait> wizzyrea: i'd be happy if you could start with this one - bug 23293 14:17:49 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23293 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , OPACFineNoRenewals compares against 'balance' not 'outstanding' 14:17:51 <cait> argh 14:17:59 <cait> bug 23283 14:17:59 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23283 critical, P5 - low, ---, lucas, Needs Signoff , cannot view/edit additional attributes in 18.11.x 14:18:27 <ashimema> I'll try to take on one or two of the 'Major' ones still without code 14:18:44 <wizzyrea> ah right 14:18:49 <wizzyrea> which solution there do we like better 14:18:55 <wizzyrea> the 2nd? 14:18:56 <wahanui> the 2nd is the staff interface 14:19:22 <cait> i think it's only one patch now 14:19:30 <cait> it seems to include the change mark made - but please double check 14:20:26 <wizzyrea> oh right 14:20:30 <wizzyrea> yep ok 14:20:49 <cait> nothing more from me 14:20:58 <cait> hit me up if you have a spare moment and need inspiration :) 14:21:09 <ashimema> okies, moving on then 14:21:26 <ashimema> #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) 14:21:45 <ashimema> we have a few to go through 14:21:46 <ashimema> do we have alex_a around? 14:22:12 <corilynn> I haven't seen him since last week, ashimema 14:22:21 <wizzyrea> holidayyyyys 14:22:25 <ashimema> #topic Mana-KB Workflows 14:22:33 <ashimema> #info Looking for some guidance on how to progress ManaKB serverside bugs 14:22:53 <ashimema> perhaps best to postpone that one again then.. 14:23:08 <fridolin> alex is on holidays 14:23:10 <fridolin> for 3 weeks 14:23:17 <ashimema> it's unclear how we want to manage that project as a community yet.. there's no clear path through SO/QA and Push 14:23:38 <ashimema> but there is a record of issues in Bugzilla.. so we need to define how we want to operate there. 14:23:54 <ashimema> anywho.. lets move on whilst the relevant parties aren't here 14:24:05 <cait> can we add a note? 14:24:22 <cait> https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration is missing infromation for Hea and Mana 14:24:43 <ashimema> #info Postponed discussion as the key parties are not in attendance 14:24:45 <cait> I'd really like to have some information on the provider and who to talk 14:25:05 <cait> #info Note for later: Update/complate https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration for Mana and Hea 14:25:11 <cait> complete... 14:25:30 <ashimema> thanks 14:25:57 <ashimema> #topic Road to Mojolicious 14:26:28 <ashimema> #info I'll be starting to look at bug 23161 in the next couple of weeks with a view to persuing pushing it early next month 14:26:28 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23161 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , We need to document the release process for this project? 14:26:56 <ashimema> #info Correction, that was meant to be bug 20582 14:26:56 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20582 enhancement, P5 - low, Future, julian.maurice, Signed Off , Turn Koha into a Mojolicious application 14:27:18 <cait> not only me today :) 14:27:42 <ashimema> I think there's a general concensus that it's worth investigating.. I want to get a few more key parties involved and get their opinions, excitment and fears 14:28:19 <ashimema> unless anyone has anything else they specifically want to say on that one, it was more of an anouncement than a discussion.. please get involved :) 14:28:37 <ashimema> moving on 14:29:00 <ashimema> #topic Git maintanence 14:29:07 <ashimema> ack, no Joubu.. he was meant to be leading the charge on this one. 14:29:25 <ashimema> #info The gitlab mirror is currently failing to mirror correctly as our main repository is so large. 14:29:55 <cait> oh 14:29:57 <ashimema> #info This really just highlights that the repository is still growing at an alarming rate and as such many of our tools are starting to struggle. 14:30:40 <ashimema> rangi has already proposed we move the translations into their own repository 14:30:49 <thd> It may also highlight potential problems with Gitlab overhead. 14:30:56 <ashimema> and we have other suggestions 14:31:12 <ashimema> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Git_Splitting_and_Shrinking Git maintanence proposals 14:32:02 <cait> we just need to make sure we have a clear workflow 14:32:03 <ashimema> I would say we do need to reduce our core repo's footprint at some point.. we've been discussing it for years for all sorts of reasons... I think it's time we took some decisive action 14:32:06 <cait> for how to ship translations 14:32:16 <ashimema> indeed cait 14:32:19 <thd> Moving translations and anything non-destructive to potentially important code history should be preferred. 14:32:21 <cait> woudl splitting out mean we don't include them anymore in packages etc? 14:32:49 <ashimema> but also need a consensus on how far we go with the cleanup.. 14:33:01 <fridolin> we should build anguage packages like firefox does 14:33:05 <ashimema> we have a few options outlined on that page.. please take a look and contribute to the discussions. 14:33:24 <cait> i am just worried because we are so log on people now - we can't leave this half-finished 14:33:43 <cait> i think the history on the po files is not relevant 14:33:54 <cait> as it's all automated and not 'personal' 14:34:07 <ashimema> right now cait, I believe the idea is to use git submodules (so the build process would remain as is but the maints would need to pull the submodule repo rather than merge the latest translations commit) 14:34:12 <cait> hm maybe some from pre-pootle days... but most shoudl be just the translation server as author 14:34:38 <cait> ashimema: how woudl the update happen on the submodule repo? 14:34:44 <ashimema> the issue with loosing history isn't the history of those files themselves but the way git records it.. 14:35:21 <ashimema> removing those files historically (which would lead to the biggest improvement in repo size) would change the commit hashes for the whole history (every commit).. 14:35:27 <ashimema> which could cause headaches 14:35:53 <cait> oh 14:35:57 <cait> so all links in bugzilla etc... broken? 14:36:10 <ashimema> pretty much as it does now cait.. the translations are already basically maintained in their own repo on github.. the rmaints (and rm) just pull in one commit each release from it. 14:36:12 <cait> not such a big fan fo that idea 14:36:28 <fridolin> my disk space is fan of it ;) 14:36:52 <ashimema> kohadevbox and koha-testing-docker would be fans of it ;) 14:37:27 <fridolin> and jenkins 14:37:51 <cait> so that would be... option 3? 14:37:52 <thd> Which options break links? 14:38:05 <ashimema> there's lots of good positives here.. it's whether they outweight the negatives 14:38:22 <corilynn> i don't think i understand the negatives 14:38:45 <cait> i am not sure about losing history = does it mean, it's gone (like freshly initiated) or just: changed hashes 14:38:52 <cait> and it's all still there but reorganized 14:38:55 <thd> Does option 3 "Keep-loose history" break links? 14:39:20 <ashimema> I should clean up that page.. it doesn't make it desperately clear 14:39:21 <ashimema> what links are we talking about cait? 14:39:22 <ashimema> an example would be good 14:39:34 <cait> linking to a commit on git 14:40:23 <cait> some bug trackers allow you do that nicely... i think we don't have tons of those in bugzilla, only some 14:40:45 <cait> usually something liek: i tracked it back to commit... breaking things 14:40:53 <ashimema> personally.. I like the idea of drawing a line and having a koha-legacy repo where all the links would just continue to work 14:41:07 <ashimema> as nothing would change.. it just stops moving 14:41:19 <ashimema> then doing the splitting and cleaning as a fresh set of repos 14:41:46 <ashimema> all new development goes onto the new repo's 14:42:03 <ashimema> the issue is more about how all devs would need to switch to tracking the new repository 14:42:14 <cait> (16:38:44) cait: i am not sure about losing history = does it mean, it's gone (like freshly initiated) or just: changed hashes 14:42:14 <cait> (16:38:52) cait: and it's all still there but reorganized 14:42:21 <cait> still a bit stuck on that question 14:42:30 <thd> Yes, if creating legacy preserves all history and does not break past links. 14:42:32 <ashimema> and.. their existing branches and patches would need updateing to apply to the new repos' 14:42:57 <ashimema> what you'd see allot of in the beggining would be that horrible `sha1 does not apply` pach issue on existing bugs and patches. 14:43:27 <cait> i've never learned how to resolve these 14:43:33 <cait> so it's a little scary 14:43:43 <ashimema> it's that applying bugzilla patches stuff that would be painful for a few months I think 14:43:44 <thd> The problem to not break links would also be about naming such that if the old would be renamed koha-legacy that itself would break links. 14:44:20 <cait> if we moved to gitlab or similar it woudl also get broken... links would be nice... but more concerned about the not applying now 14:44:32 <ashimema> indeed thd.. though we could symlink 'koha' to 'koha-legacy' at the main koha git repo server end I believe.. 14:44:34 <cait> how do you handle patches that don't apply developer side? with the sha1? 14:44:49 <ashimema> and move forward with 'koha-core' and 'koha-i18n' or whatever as the new 14:45:21 <ashimema> you can manually apply them cait.. though it doesn't always work nicely 14:45:35 <cait> what means manually apply? 14:46:33 <ashimema> what you can often do is 'patch -p1 < failed_patch.patch' 14:46:58 <cait> hm if we do that change... I thnk we need to have that written up 14:47:01 <ashimema> I can write something up to help with that pain.. but it certainly would cause pain to start with 14:47:12 <cait> and also have people helping others with rebasing 14:47:53 <ashimema> indeed 14:48:15 <ashimema> Joubu is keen to move forward and I'm keen to 'do it right' 14:48:39 <cait> I am not against doing it, but let's not rush 14:48:51 <cait> amybe we can make the page a bit clearer on suspected side effects 14:49:01 <cait> and do a feedback round on the mailing list? (koha-devel) 14:49:03 <ashimema> as in.. make sure the community are in agreement as to how and understand the repurcussions and benefits 14:49:05 <ashimema> indeed 14:49:21 <ashimema> I think I'll leave it as a standing topic whilst Joubu and I work on clarifying it all 14:49:26 <ashimema> yeah, that's also a good idea cait 14:49:42 <ashimema> shall we move onto the next topic for now? 14:50:10 <ashimema> #info Martin will send something to the dev mailing list regarding git maintanence proposals 14:50:21 <thd> Given that the vast majority of the problem comes from translation history I presume that preserving translations monolithically would be liable to recreate the same problem for translations at a later point if not immediately. 14:50:29 <ashimema> #info Martin will try to clarify the existing git splitting page 14:50:57 <ashimema> #info We will keep this as a standing topic on the agenda whilst it's still in progress 14:51:38 <ashimema> perhaps thd.. but it's a problem that will affect fewer people 14:52:13 <ashimema> the main effects at this point in time are issues with devbox and things struggling to cope with the size of the main repo.. 14:52:41 <thd> If a koha-legacy is created would it not be better to then also have separate repositories for each translation to constrain history size? 14:52:43 <ashimema> in reality only the translation manager and rmaints/rm ever need to actually interact with the i18n repo at all 14:52:46 <ashimema> hense 'they can cope' 14:53:08 <thd> ...ahh 14:53:27 <ashimema> I don't believe it would win us much.. for the above reasons ;) 14:53:42 <ashimema> it's only really the main repo for the majority of devs that we're worried about.. 14:54:25 <ashimema> example in point.. at the hackfests we often get a group of new devs all trying to clone our main repo at the same time.. 14:54:32 <ashimema> because it's huge and they're all doing it we often swamp the bandwidth of the local internet and everyone grinds to a halt 14:54:53 <thd> one can always imagine features which could have a high growth trajectory. 14:55:02 <ashimema> a smaller repo would basically make that sort of problem go away 14:55:05 <ashimema> instead of 'git clone -> go and have lunch' it would be 'git clone -> grab a cup of tea' 14:55:19 <ashimema> hehe, indeed 14:55:23 <ashimema> so...... 14:55:23 <wahanui> i think so is the koha ON the mac? 14:55:43 <ashimema> moving on.. thanks for all the input and please keep mulling it over if you have any thoughts 14:56:07 <ashimema> #topic Review of coding guidelines 14:56:20 <thd> We would need to be mindful of potential features which might lead to the same problem and create separate repositories for them when the growth curve becomes evident. 14:56:24 <ashimema> #topc Using the Koha::Script base class 14:56:31 <ashimema> #topic Using the Koha::Script base class 14:57:00 <ashimema> correct thd 14:57:50 <ashimema> So.. we introduced a base class for command line scripts with bug 22600, but neglected to add a guidline to ensure it's use going forward. 14:57:50 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22600 blocker, P2, ---, martin.renvoize, RESOLVED FIXED, We should add an 'interface' field to accountlines 14:58:18 <ashimema> As it stands, that base class basically sets up a consistent environment for scripts to run, so we get consistent action_logs for example from all cronjobs and maintanence scripts 14:58:42 <ashimema> I propose to write such a guideline and take a vote on it next meeting (forgot to do a draft for this meeting) 14:59:40 <cait> +1 14:59:40 <ashimema> #info We introduced a base class for scripts in bug 22600 - We should add a guideline to facilitate it's maintanence. 14:59:57 <ashimema> :) 15:00:02 <ashimema> ok.. I'll write it up for next meeting.. apologies I'm bhind 15:00:14 <ashimema> next 15:00:19 * fridolin goes to train, see you 15:00:28 <ashimema> #topic Update to SQL12 15:00:35 <ashimema> this one was another Joubu + tcohen one 15:00:58 <ashimema> I'll try to explain though.. 15:01:58 <ashimema> We currently use TINYINT(1) in the database for any form of boolean.. but TINYINT(1) may also be used for other things which makes it hard for QA scripts to tell if it's meant to be a boolean or not 15:01:59 <ashimema> and.. 15:03:42 <ashimema> qa people are missing cases where booleans are being introduced and not being appropraitely set in the DBIC classes (and as such the REST api is not converiting them to valid JSON::Booleans) 15:03:49 <ashimema> I 'think' the discussion here was meant to ask 'What next' 15:03:49 <ashimema> should we switch to something other than TINYINT(1) (BOOLEAN or BIT perhaps) 15:03:56 <ashimema> or set a 'warning' type failure in the QA scripts and get the QA persons to decide whether it's an actual fail or not? 15:04:00 <ashimema> thoughts? 15:04:12 * ashimema wishes tcohen and Joubu were here 15:04:54 <ashimema> met by silence.. another one to wait on the relevant parties I reckon 15:05:02 <cait> maybe 15:05:09 <cait> not quite the topic i know a lot about :) 15:05:20 <ashimema> #info Further discussion postponed pending knowledable parties. 15:05:49 <ashimema> #topic Revise JS guideline JS8 to recomment ESLint 15:05:51 <thd> I think that treating booleans as a numeric value has huge importance for future standards based support. 15:06:06 <ashimema> oleonard around? 15:06:07 <ashimema> this is his? 15:06:12 <cait> i think so 15:07:16 <ashimema> MS SQL is about the only DB system that gets 'BOOLEAN' right as per the original intention of the SQL spec apparently 15:07:16 <ashimema> thd ^ 15:07:23 <ashimema> I 'think' BIT is the closest other DB's have got 15:08:26 <ashimema> OK, no oleonard and we've hit the 1 hour mark 15:08:33 <ashimema> lets move onto the last topic 15:08:43 <thd> Well, if that is really correct and widely applicable for other contexts of Boolean use as well then great. ... moving 15:08:47 <ashimema> #info Posponed discussion as oleonard is absent 15:09:00 <ashimema> #topic Set time of next meeting 15:09:36 <ashimema> coming into summer now so I think we're going to be operating on a skeliton crew for the next few meetings 15:12:10 <thd> Is 24 July a useful date? 15:12:35 <reiveune> bye 15:12:42 <cait> winter in nz :) 15:12:51 <cait> should work 15:13:14 <ashimema> I think it'll be a short one.. but I do think it's good to have one in the diary every two weeks (we can always cancel the slot if there are no topics) 15:13:22 <ashimema> so.. that would make it 24th July I believe 15:13:24 <cait> agreed 15:13:56 <ashimema> and.. I'm trying to be good and line up so the NZ croud can attend.. so that puts it 15:14:16 <ashimema> 8pm BST 15:14:34 <ashimema> 19:00 UTC 15:14:46 <ashimema> so... 15:15:17 <cait> too early 15:15:20 <ashimema> 24 July 2019, 19:00:00 UTC - Does that suit? 15:15:23 <thd> 20 UTC is currently set for the general meeting but I think 19 UTC may be closer to what people favoured in the preferred times poll. 15:15:42 <cait> hm let me check quickly 15:16:04 <cait> i think 20 might work slightly better 15:16:04 <ashimema> 19UTC was what we did two weeks ago 15:16:10 <cait> because of daylight savings 15:16:15 <cait> 10 hours from here to nz 15:16:31 <cait> 20 utc should be 8 am 15:16:42 <thd> We have allowed meeting times to drift in the opposite direction of the survey times as summer time changes have come and gone. 15:16:44 <ashimema> any objections anyone else 15:17:01 <cait> more likely to catch people at work 15:17:19 <thd> I prefer 19 UTC so no objection from me. 15:17:58 <ashimema> sorry.. I meant objections to 20 15:18:03 <thd> I was trying to state that 19 UTC may be closer to what the time survey had indicated people favoured. 15:18:10 <ashimema> 20 is 9pm UK 15:19:04 <ashimema> nothing say it needs to be on the hour.. perhaps 19:30 in a vane atempt to keep more people happy 15:19:25 <thd> I like 19.30 ;) 15:19:35 <cait> keep people on their toes ;) 15:20:12 <ashimema> #info Next meeting: 24 July 2019, 19:30 UTC 15:20:12 <ashimema> done :) 15:20:13 <thd> People may need special notice to show up not too early and leave :) 15:20:15 <ashimema> thanks all 15:20:18 <ashimema> #endmeeting