21:00:45 <ashimema[m]> #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 18 December 2019
21:00:45 <huginn> Meeting started Wed Dec 18 21:00:45 2019 UTC.  The chair is ashimema[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:45 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:00:45 <huginn> The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_18_december_2019'
21:00:55 <ashimema[m]> #topic Introductions
21:01:11 <ashimema[m]> Please introduce yourselves with #info to appear in the minutes
21:01:21 <ashimema[m]> #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe, UK
21:01:29 <hayley> #info Hayley Mapley, Catalyst IT, Wellington NZ
21:01:34 <aleisha> #info Aleisha Amohia, Catalyst IT, Wellington NZ
21:01:53 <davidnind> #info David Nind, Wellington NZ
21:02:30 <lisettelatah> #info Lisette Scheer, Idaho, USA
21:02:43 <ashimema[m]> is it not darn early in NZ?
21:02:48 <aleisha> 10am :)
21:02:54 <ashimema[m]> welcome along, nice to have you guys
21:03:07 <hayley> thank you! happy to make it!
21:03:10 <ashimema[m]> oh, not so bad
21:03:19 <ashimema[m]> still nice to have you :)
21:03:39 <inlibro> blou: #info Philippe Blouin, Solutions inLibro, Montréal
21:04:26 <ashimema[m]> #topic Announcements
21:05:22 <ashimema[m]> #info Stable releases are on their way, thankyou to the new RMaints
21:07:07 <ashimema[m]> #info Bugfix only period will be coming to an end shortly, we will start working on pushing enhancements from early January starting with the existing PQA queue and then working through some of the challenging and ambitious bugs.. refactoring efforts for example.. giving us a chance to thoroughly test and fix issues before release
21:07:15 <ashimema[m]> Anyone have anything they'd like to add?
21:07:51 <hayley> :)
21:08:24 <ashimema[m]> #topic Update from the Release manager
21:09:42 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #208: FAILURE in 35 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/208/
21:09:53 <ashimema[m]> #info Cycle has had a good start, lots of bugs working their way through the SO/QA process, great to see a new name on the QA team :)
21:10:08 <ashimema[m]> #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
21:10:14 <ashimema[m]> rmaints?
21:10:14 <wahanui> rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea
21:10:25 <ashimema[m]> ooh..
21:10:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #207: FAILURE in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D8/207/
21:10:37 <ashimema[m]> wahanui forget rmaints
21:10:37 <wahanui> ashimema[m]: I forgot rmaints
21:11:02 <ashimema[m]> rmaints is talljoy, lucas, hayley
21:11:13 <ashimema[m]> rmaints
21:11:20 <ashimema[m]> * rmaints?
21:11:34 <hayley> 18.11 is on track to be packaged up on 20th when I go on holiday and released on 23rd - just ironing out the last failures/instabilities now
21:11:39 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #198: FAILURE in 31 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_U18/198/
21:11:42 <ashimema[m]> I think it may just be you tonight hayley
21:11:52 <ashimema[m]> thanks :)
21:12:12 <hayley> please ignore the chaos :)
21:12:17 <ashimema[m]> #info 18.11 is on track to be packaged up on 20th when I go on holiday and released on 23rd - just ironing out the last failures/instabilities now
21:12:47 <ashimema[m]> #info 19.05 and 19.11 are scheduled for release on 23rd too
21:13:19 <ashimema[m]> You're doing great hayley, thanks for taking on the role :)
21:13:36 <hayley> thank you ashimema[m] I have had a lot of support so thank you everyone :)
21:13:50 <davidnind> Is packaging going to cause any problems for the maintenance releases?
21:14:16 <ashimema[m]> good question
21:14:33 <ashimema[m]> I've not seen any replies from mirko.. have you hayley?
21:14:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #209: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/209/
21:14:55 <hayley> no I haven't, have not been in tough with him yet however
21:15:00 <hayley> *touch
21:15:36 <ashimema[m]> he was copied into the scheduling round robin
21:15:40 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #208: STILL FAILING in 32 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D8/208/
21:15:55 <ashimema[m]> mtj around?
21:16:47 <hayley> jenkins is having issues...
21:17:01 <hayley> oh then no ashimema[m] no reply from him yet
21:18:33 <ashimema[m]> #info Maintanence packaging may be delayed as we'e not managed to contact the packaging manager, tarballs will be available on the 23rd with packages to follow
21:18:53 <ashimema[m]> #topic Updates from the QA team
21:19:04 <hayley> @later tell tcohen hi, are you able to take a look at jenkins? it is having issues: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/view/Koha%2018.11/
21:19:04 <huginn> hayley: The operation succeeded.
21:19:13 <hayley> sorry for the interruptions ashimema[m] :)
21:19:19 <ashimema[m]> #info Katrin sends her apologies, not feeling well this evening
21:19:24 <ashimema[m]> [off] no worries
21:19:42 <ashimema[m]> I'm happy to take a look at Jenkins too once the meeting is closed ;)
21:19:50 <hayley> oh thank you! :D
21:20:14 <ashimema[m]> #info QA is moving along, lots more to do, but it's nice to see the pace picking up again.
21:20:55 * ashimema[m] is looking forward to well rested QA people in the nw year wo ar super keen to test all the tihngs
21:21:38 <ashimema[m]> #topic General development discussion
21:21:40 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #199: STILL FAILING in 32 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_U18/199/
21:22:21 <ashimema[m]> #info So, we raised the idea of shaking up release cycles during the last general meeting.. Please take a look at the minutes and contribute you're thoughts to the wiki page
21:22:45 <ashimema[m]> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Versioning_-_Next Cycles Discussion
21:24:01 <ashimema[m]> To summarise, with all the things going on the library world at the moment (FOLIO, Acquisitions and Mergers) I think it's important to swing around and ask ourselves as a community what our strengths and weaknesses are and if we can improve anything.
21:24:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #210: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/210/
21:24:49 <davidnind> ashimema++
21:25:09 <hayley> ashimema[m] sounds good!
21:25:20 <ashimema[m]> We discusses release cycle cadence, continious integration/deployment practices, expiriment and stabalise and various other practices..
21:25:42 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #209: STILL FAILING in 29 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D8/209/
21:26:07 <ashimema[m]> conversation to date is summarised on that wiki page, please contribute your thoughts there or catch me here if you want to discus anything with a smaller audience before expanding it to the wider groups.
21:26:29 <davidnind> always good to have a look around at what other projects are doing, and picking up ideas for improvement
21:26:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #200: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_U18/200/
21:27:06 <ashimema[m]> anything you wish to raise regarding dev and documentation davidnind ?
21:27:39 <ashimema[m]> as in.. hows the translations processes going.. do we need to tie it down any further... are you waiting on anyone for anything
21:27:47 <davidnind> not at this stage, caroline_catlady is adding all the bugs to our task list in taiga
21:27:54 <ashimema[m]> brill
21:28:17 <caroline_catlady> it's slower this week at the office, trying to catch up on docs work
21:28:31 <ashimema[m]> ok.. lets move on then unless anyone else wants to take the floor and raise anything.. now's your chance
21:28:37 <davidnind> I'll post a summary on the issue about the translation process, and then we need tod ecide what to do I guess
21:29:00 <caroline_catlady> There was the message from this morning regarding translations
21:29:11 <caroline_catlady> (my morning time sorry)
21:29:32 <davidnind> should we try and get release note text added once the bug is pushed to master, rather than trying to do all at once nearer the end?
21:29:42 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #211: STILL FAILING in 34 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/211/
21:29:52 <caroline_catlady> +1
21:30:08 * ashimema[m] did sort of try to do it whilst going along last cycle.. but struggled to keep up
21:30:10 <davidnind> that helps when working what the issue is about, sometimes it can be hard to work out what the change is about and waht documentation changes are required
21:30:17 <ashimema[m]> very good idea to raise it again though.
21:30:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #210: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D8/210/
21:30:39 <ashimema[m]> any thoughts on what to concentrate on with that regard
21:30:59 <caroline_catlady> I'll try to keep an eye on release notes, and let you know ashimema[m] if there's any bug that should be described more
21:31:25 <ashimema[m]> in the last release I tried to ensure all new features had a good summary, then I picked as many enahncements as I could get through and finally I went through looking at bugs for preference changes and db changes that would need report updates
21:31:38 <ashimema[m]> :)
21:31:39 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #201: STILL FAILING in 31 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_U18/201/
21:31:48 <caroline_catlady> loved the preferences and reports notes :)
21:31:49 <ashimema[m]> this sort of ties into the next topic
21:31:54 <ashimema[m]> so...
21:31:57 <lisettelatah> I try to add release notes as I see things are PQA. If you want to let me know if you think something needs release notes I'm happy to help with that.
21:32:13 <ashimema[m]> awesome
21:32:19 <hayley> is there a guide to writing a good release note?
21:32:19 <davidnind> great!
21:32:55 <ashimema[m]> hmm.. no formal guide yet.. but perhaps we should create one
21:33:00 <ashimema[m]> #topic Review of coding guidelines
21:33:01 <davidnind> if there isn't I'm happy to have a go
21:33:45 <ashimema[m]> #idea Should we add some guidlines for writing good summaries for the release notes
21:34:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #212: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/212/
21:34:38 <davidnind> can propose something for the next meeting as a coding guideline for the next meeting
21:34:40 <ashimema[m]> #idea Should we require summaries for release notes for certain categories of bugs as part of the QA process?
21:35:14 <ashimema[m]> #idea Should we require documentation merge requests for certain bug categories as part of the QA process?
21:35:27 <caroline_catlady> I'm ambivalent... I fear it would make the process heavier
21:35:43 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #211: STILL FAILING in 30 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D8/211/
21:35:55 <ashimema[m]> hmm..
21:36:21 <ashimema[m]> not sure it's heavier as much as it's just shifting the 'when' for doing it..
21:36:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #202: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_U18/202/
21:37:08 <ashimema[m]> I really don't like enhancements and new features going in without any form of documentation at release time
21:37:27 <ashimema[m]> and it's a massive task for you guys to write all the docs for everything new in the last days/weeks before release
21:37:55 <caroline_catlady> docs is still very behind, but if we can be more involved during the process maybe we could be of help?
21:37:56 <ashimema[m]> it also makes testing and qa simpler if we have a clear manual for what the feature is meant to do
21:38:21 <hayley> I agree, but then I don't have the QA/Documentation experience
21:38:44 <ashimema[m]> indeed.. all QA is 'guidelines' anyway.. so the team won't allow it to hold up code without good reason ;)
21:39:34 <lisettelatah> If there are clear guidelines for what it should do, we might be able to get more people to do signoffs.
21:39:41 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #213: STILL FAILING in 33 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/213/
21:39:53 <ashimema[m]> one of the things I do occasionally for bywater bugs for instance is that I request their educators write docs for a bug before I go ahead and do a final QA run on it.
21:40:18 <davidnind> in an ideal world it would be nice to get docs updated soon after bugs are pushed to master , while everything is fresh in everyone's minds
21:40:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #212: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D8/212/
21:40:45 <ashimema[m]> indeed
21:40:51 <davidnind> once we get through the backlog... :-D
21:41:37 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #203: ABORTED in 29 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_U18/203/
21:41:40 <davidnind> even an attachment to the bug would be helpful, however it is written
21:42:23 <ashimema[m]> lets leave those as idea's then and bring it back up next meeting in January
21:43:19 <hayley> ++
21:43:56 <aleisha> sorry im a bit late but i think it would be cool if it became custom to update those docs. extra work for sure but helpful for everyone and could just become habit after some time
21:44:07 <aleisha> but yes can be brought back up in jan!
21:44:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #214: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/214/
21:44:39 <ashimema[m]> Yeah.. I'd like to make it a good habbit people get into..
21:44:42 <ashimema[m]> rather than just introducing more pain
21:45:30 <ashimema[m]> ok.. shall we move on to setting the time of the next meeting
21:45:45 <ashimema[m]> #topic Set time of next meeting
21:47:14 <davidnind> 15th January? (unless you want the 1st of Jan !)
21:47:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #204: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_U18/204/
21:47:47 <ashimema[m]> I was just thinking the same
21:48:14 <ashimema[m]> there's a general meeting on the 8th
21:48:19 <ashimema[m]> so yeah.. 15th works
21:48:42 <ashimema[m]> nd the general meeting is a later one I believe so the 'flop' to the earlier time for the dev meeting makes sense I think
21:48:45 <ashimema[m]> so
21:49:35 <koha-jenkins> Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #215: STILL FAILING in 12 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_18.11_D9/215/
21:49:36 <ashimema[m]> Next meeting: 15 January 2020, 14 UTC
21:49:40 <ashimema[m]> that suit?
21:49:46 <davidnind> +1
21:50:17 <ashimema[m]> #info Next meeting: 15 January 2020, 14 UTC
21:50:20 <ashimema[m]> #endmeeting