19:00:17 <ashimema> #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019
19:00:17 <huginn`> Meeting started Wed Jun 26 19:00:17 2019 UTC.  The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:17 <huginn`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:00:17 <huginn`> The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_26_june_2019'
19:00:21 <ashimema> #topic Introductions
19:00:36 <ashimema> #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
19:00:44 <ashimema> #chair cait
19:00:44 <huginn`> Current chairs: ashimema cait
19:00:50 <oleonard> #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA
19:00:53 <bag> #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater
19:00:56 <cait> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
19:01:04 <andreashm> #info Andreas Hedström Mace, Stockholm University Library
19:01:06 <alexbuckley> #info Alex Buckley, Catalyst IT Wellington NZ
19:01:06 <ashimema> as much as I was enjoying the cocktail chatter ;)
19:01:09 <josef_moravec> #info Josef Moravec, Czech Republic
19:01:28 <hayley> #info Hayley Mapley Catalyst IT Wellington NZ
19:01:59 <ashimema> Nice to have some representation from NZ :).. hope this time is a bit better for you guys :)?
19:02:18 <cait> 7 am if i am not imstaken
19:02:30 <alexbuckley> yes 7am is much better :)
19:02:33 <hayley> That's right! It's a decent hour :)
19:02:46 <cait> opinions on that being a decent hour may vary :)
19:02:56 <alexbuckley> heh
19:02:56 <hayley> haha, true
19:03:04 <davidnind> #info David Nind
19:03:08 <ashimema> #topic Announcements
19:04:03 <ashimema> #info We have a new leaderboard on the dashboard - 'Rescues', let's gamify getting bugs out of Failed QA/Patch doesn't apply :)
19:04:11 <cait> ah
19:04:22 <ashimema> #link https://dashboard.koha-community.org Dashboard
19:04:25 <cait> it's great, but i tihnk it needs a little fixing
19:04:30 <cait> names are doubled up there still :)
19:04:45 <cait> Tomas, me and Martin righ tnow
19:04:52 <ashimema> yeah.. I've got a patch waiting.. just need to catch rangi to get it deployed
19:04:57 <cait> nice :)
19:05:14 <cait> could we put it last so the columns align?
19:05:18 <ashimema> RM's can make GROUP BY mistakes too :P
19:05:39 <cait> the signoffs and passed qas etc.
19:06:05 <cait> sorry :)
19:06:05 <ashimema> erm.. in what sense cait?
19:06:16 <cait> signoffs june and signofs 2019
19:06:20 <ashimema> they look alligned to me.. but perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean
19:06:24 <cait> without the typos obviously
19:06:32 <cait> are no longer in one column
19:06:45 <ashimema> ooh.. now I see what you mean
19:06:53 * cait tries harder to make sense
19:07:34 <ashimema> #action ashimema to get vertical alignment of like for like columns working on the dashboard again
19:07:38 <cait> :)
19:07:43 <ashimema> anyone else got any anouncements?
19:07:56 <cait> any events maybe?
19:08:05 * ashimema thought we might be maintanence releaseing today, but I think it's tomorrow now.
19:08:58 <cait> move on?
19:09:23 * ashimema is just looking up the marseille hackfest dates to take the oportunity to advertise it
19:09:54 <cait> sept 30th - oct 4th.
19:10:26 <cait> ashimema: ^:)
19:10:36 <oleonard> Oh yeah it's on the calendar. Was there an official announcement?
19:10:46 <cait> sec i can find the email link too
19:11:00 <ashimema> #info Next Hackfest in the diary is Marseille, 30th Sept - 4th Oct 2019
19:11:13 <cait> [off] http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Hackfest-in-Marseille-in-2019-td6003139.html
19:11:19 <cait> taking a little longer to find the non-nabble link
19:11:23 <ashimema> a while back yeah.. but it's nice to keep it in the forefront of peoples minds ;)
19:11:37 <ashimema> moving on...
19:11:39 <oleonard> Oh no wonder I didn't remember :D
19:11:55 <cait> #link http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2018-November/044964.html Marselle Hackfest dates
19:12:08 <ashimema> #topic Update from the Release Manager
19:12:45 <ashimema> #info We've started pushing small enhancements now, having been concentrating mostly on bugs for the last month.
19:13:49 <ashimema> I intend to continue with small enhancements, nothing earth shattering for a couple more weeks whilst 19.05.x is still bedding in, but then I hope to have a more adventurous window of a couple of months for the bigger new features and enhancements.
19:15:22 <ashimema> I've been trying to touch base with various parties who I know have things in the pipeline so I can help spread out SO/QA resources so let me know if you have anything like that (beware though.. throwing bugs at me to ask for SO/QA's on means I'll likely throw a few back for SO/QA from others) :)
19:15:52 <ashimema> that's my piece.. any questions for the RM?
19:16:03 <ashimema> rmaints?
19:16:03 <wahanui> rmaints is probably fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea
19:16:19 <oleonard> probably
19:16:19 <wahanui> probably is too hard.
19:16:37 <ashimema> moving on then
19:16:49 <ashimema> #topic Update from the Release Maintainers
19:16:58 <ashimema> could be quiet, none of them appear to be here...
19:18:12 <ashimema> Well, having touched base with fridolin this morning I believe their aiming for 19.05.01 release tomorrow
19:18:21 <ashimema> with the other following in behind
19:18:30 <ashimema> #info 19.05.01 scheduled for release tomorrow
19:18:46 <ashimema> moving on again
19:18:50 <ashimema> #topic Update from the QA team
19:18:52 <ashimema> qa?
19:18:52 <wahanui> hmmm... qa is unhappy about that, please fix
19:19:02 <cait> yes
19:19:22 <cait> I've been out of the loop a bit in recent weeks because of personal matters, hope things will improve now
19:19:40 <tcohen> hi
19:19:41 <cait> #info QA queue is currently at around 50
19:20:00 <cait> some 'problem' areas are SIP2, Elastic and REST API
19:20:03 <tcohen> #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
19:20:04 * ashimema thinks caits still doing a great job on the weekly emails and keeping things moving along
19:20:10 <cait> help from topic experts much appreciated
19:20:14 <tcohen> [off] sorry for the delay!
19:20:32 <cait> we have some big projects going on and some quite big patches waiting
19:20:44 <amoyano> #info Agustin Moyano, Theke Solutions
19:20:51 <cait> worried about the number of bad (blocker, critical and major) bugs we see right now
19:21:25 <ashimema> indeed.. we need eyes on those
19:21:26 <cait> #info Currently we face 1 blocker, 3 criticals and 21 majors, patch writers, testers and QA people needed
19:22:33 <ashimema> Thanks cait
19:22:35 <cait> #info additional testing/sign-offs on some of the long sitting patches in QA queue would be great to get more confidence in passing them along
19:22:44 <cait> nothing more from me
19:23:00 <ashimema> :)
19:23:11 <ashimema> #topic General development discussion
19:23:18 <ashimema> we have a point points today
19:23:48 <ashimema> #topic Bugzilla status proposals
19:24:04 * ashimema realises now her forgot to link the agenda
19:24:14 <ashimema> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_26_June_2019 Agenda
19:24:40 <cait> me too :)
19:24:43 <ashimema> So.. I think we've actually voted on these bugzilla status proposals before.. but we've not managed to impliment the changes yet
19:25:37 <ashimema> I basically propose a bit of a tidy up of some of our no longer used status's and to get the 'Pushed to..' status's to match our debian releases
19:25:58 <ashimema> i.e stable, oldstable and oldoldstable.
19:26:12 <cait> only question i have is if we need to resolve existing bugs having status to be deleted (but not sur e they exist)
19:26:39 <ashimema> probably not much more to discuss there unless anyone has any issues they'd like to point out.
19:26:50 <ashimema> I want to touch base with rangi on that one cait :)
19:26:55 <cait> ok :)
19:27:02 <ashimema> next topic
19:27:11 <thd> #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:27:13 <cait> so we are going to do it, right?
19:27:38 <ashimema> I think so, yes
19:27:44 <cait> once you do it, can you ping me? I'd try and update the wiki
19:28:13 <cait> and I'd like to propose removal of some fields from the bugzilla form for next meeting
19:28:22 <ashimema> we already voted to say yes.. this is just a friendly reminder about it as time has passed and that I'm going to pin it down and get it done ;)
19:28:28 <cait> I think less could we more there
19:28:30 <cait> could be
19:28:31 <ashimema> so.. moving on
19:28:55 <ashimema> agree.. wuold love to see such a proposal on the next meeting :)
19:29:09 <ashimema> I agree.. but I hadn't got anything ready to propose for this one ;)
19:29:09 <ashimema> so..
19:29:10 <ashimema> #topic Deprecate package support for Debian 8 and Ubuntu 16.04
19:29:34 <ashimema> tcohen you may be better at explaining the reasoning for this proposal than me
19:30:26 <ashimema> grr.. the bug linked on the agenda isn't the right one
19:30:48 <tcohen> Jessie has entered maintenance (security) only, no new stuffs, that's what I understood
19:30:50 <cait> we'll find it
19:31:03 <cait> bug 23128
19:31:03 <huginn`> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23128 major, P5 - low, ---, mirko, In Discussion , Missing Net::OAuth2::AuthorizationServer dependency
19:31:07 <cait> fixing wiki
19:31:07 <tcohen> and 16.04 is based on jessie
19:31:37 <ashimema> thanks, that's the one
19:31:51 <tcohen> if we want the REST API Oauth2 to work out of the box, we need this
19:31:52 <ashimema> So, yes..
19:32:02 <tcohen> people using jessie and 16.04 can still install Koha
19:32:06 <cait> fixed
19:32:10 <ashimema> Jessie is in maintanence mode already, and that's due to come to an end in a couple of months I believe
19:32:16 <tcohen> things won't be installed automatically, but they can cpanm them
19:32:37 <ashimema> and.. we have some packaging issues that nessesitate we drop support
19:32:48 <tcohen> there's a problem in packages names that prevents a solution that fits all
19:33:32 <cait> so that would be for 19.11 right?
19:33:38 <cait> or also for the maintenance releases
19:34:01 <ashimema> So.. do we need to vote on this or do we feel it's nessesary to the extent that we just need to do it.
19:34:31 <cait> I trust Mirko there
19:34:39 <tcohen> cait: we need drojf, but I'm sure 19.05 is involved
19:34:50 <tcohen> I trust him as well
19:35:14 <ashimema> from what drojf was saying I believe it will only affect 'new installs'
19:35:23 <thd> We should probably vote in any case unless we have a standing policy.
19:35:37 <ashimema> so existing installations tracking the repositories should be fine as they should already have any required dependancies installed
19:36:03 * ashimema comes up with how to phrase the vote
19:36:14 <cait> that's always the hard part :)
19:37:10 <oleonard> "Should we do this thing?" Yes/No
19:37:35 <ashimema> #startvote Can we deprecate support for Debian 8 (Jessie) and Ubuntu 16.04 in the packages? Yes, No
19:37:35 <huginn`> Begin voting on: Can we deprecate support for Debian 8 (Jessie) and Ubuntu 16.04 in the packages? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
19:37:35 <huginn`> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
19:37:54 <tcohen> #vote Yes
19:37:55 <thd> #vote Yes
19:37:58 <ashimema> #vote Yes
19:37:59 <josef_moravec> #vote Yes
19:37:59 <oleonard> #vote Yes
19:38:06 <andreashm> #vote Yes
19:38:08 <amoyano> #vote Yes
19:38:08 <alexbuckley> #vote Yes
19:38:14 <hayley> #vote Yes
19:38:15 <cait> #vote yes
19:38:26 <cait> #vote Yes
19:38:28 <wizzyrea> #vote Yes
19:38:30 <cait> not sure if case-sensitive
19:38:37 <davidnind> #vote yes
19:38:51 <ashimema> that's pretty overwhelming :)
19:38:55 * tcohen shouts cait is cheating
19:39:09 <ashimema> think that's pretty much everyone here
19:39:12 <ashimema> 3
19:39:15 <ashimema> 2
19:39:16 <ashimema> 1
19:39:24 <ashimema> #endvote
19:39:24 <huginn`> Voted on "Can we deprecate support for Debian 8 (Jessie) and Ubuntu 16.04 in the packages?" Results are
19:39:24 <huginn`> Yes (12): davidnind, cait, josef_moravec, oleonard, ashimema, andreashm, wizzyrea, tcohen, alexbuckley, thd, amoyano, hayley
19:40:34 <ashimema> #agree We will deprecate our support for Debian 8 and Ubuntu 16.08 in the packages.. announcement from Mirko to follow
19:40:45 <ashimema> next up
19:41:00 <ashimema> #topic Proposal to fork 'simple keyboard project'
19:41:29 <tcohen> This needs a better wording hehe
19:41:40 <ashimema> #info This is a proposal to maintain our own fork of the 'simple keyboard project' to allow community members to contribute new keyboard layouts.
19:42:11 <amoyano> actually it's Mottie Keyboard proyect
19:42:16 <cait> I am not sure I understood yet why the fork is needed
19:42:26 <ashimema> #info We will need to work on a process for keeping our fork up to date with upstream whilst maintaining our fork.
19:42:33 <cait> do we already have a demand for new layouts/is the project not open for those?
19:42:54 <tcohen> I think this went the wrong way
19:42:58 <tcohen> let me explain a bit
19:43:29 <tcohen> we (Koha) use other external projects (like some jquery libs) and usually just bundle the minified version in our codebase
19:43:46 <tcohen> on adding this keyboard (JS lib)
19:43:54 * ashimema is coming to this one cold..
19:43:55 <tcohen> we thought it would be nice to have a clear path to
19:43:56 * ashimema listens intently :)
19:44:07 <tcohen> - keep it up to date
19:44:24 <tcohen> - allow community users to propose custom layouts that could be of use
19:44:35 <tcohen> we don't really need to fork them now
19:44:38 <wizzyrea> I feel like we should just contribute to their upstream, assuming they are active enough?
19:44:43 <tcohen> we have a request from Irma to add maori
19:44:56 <tcohen> that belongs to upstream, we don't need to fork it
19:45:16 <tcohen> just send the layout and follow the steps to update our copy
19:45:18 <tcohen> but
19:45:22 <josef_moravec> they are active, I added Czech language support recently: https://github.com/Mottie/Keyboard/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
19:45:42 <tcohen> the customer that asked for this dev showed us some screenshots
19:45:54 <tcohen> of another system's 'symbols shortcut'
19:46:05 <tcohen> that we thought at some point it would be a nice thing to have
19:46:26 <tcohen> but it is not something we really need to do now
19:46:27 <josef_moravec> it is nice thing to have ;)
19:46:30 <cait> josef_moravec++ :)
19:47:00 <tcohen> what we wanted was a way to keep things up to date
19:47:02 <cait> so maybe not quite a fork... but having it 'forked' in our repo to speed up changes in Koha while waiting for it to be accepted?
19:47:06 <tcohen> and maybe have our own layouts
19:47:23 <ashimema> #info it's Mottie Keyboard and not Simple Keyboard Project
19:47:25 <wizzyrea> that isn't something we think the upstream would take straight away?
19:47:48 <tcohen> the idea was to have a mirror of their repo in the gitlab/koha-community place
19:48:03 <tcohen> and if required, maybe have our own branch
19:48:20 <ashimema> I've never been a huge fan of our bundling.. it would be nice to be able to lean on CDN's for delivery of such resources
19:48:39 <tcohen> with a gitlab-ci script to auto-generate the file that needs to be included in Koha
19:49:09 <cait> makes sense to me now
19:49:25 <thd> Mirroring their repo and adding a Koha branch if we need to be ahead of their release cycle seems prudent and modest non-forking choice.
19:49:25 <oleonard> This could be a trial for using npm to install JS assets for Koha
19:49:39 <Nemo_bis> it's a pain to override hardcoded CDN URLs when you don't want to send all your users' IP addresses to some CDN server
19:49:47 <ashimema> so less of a fork more of a mirror that may be marginally ahead of the origin whilst things get submitted upstream
19:50:00 <tcohen> oleonard: that'd be ideal
19:50:03 <tcohen> ashimema: exactly
19:50:23 <ashimema> so that makes sense to me
19:50:33 <tcohen> we don't need this to move this dev, as it is fully functional and all, but once maori is accepted upstream, we would like a clear maintenance path
19:50:37 <josef_moravec> it seems reasonable to me
19:50:43 <oleonard> tcohen: I've been starting to look at how that would work, so we should talk about it
19:50:45 <tcohen> or czech
19:50:51 <ashimema> and I take onboard Nemo_bis's point about not wanting to send people IP's to CDN's
19:51:03 <cait> yep my point too
19:51:06 <tcohen> oleonard: I'll send amoyano in your direction he
19:51:14 <cait> so should we vote or just do it?
19:51:30 <ashimema> also.. as good as CDN coverage is.. we support koha everywhere and coverage is not always 100% (I'm looking at you, local small library not connected to the internet)
19:51:57 <wizzyrea> i'm really not in favor of using CDN's
19:52:09 <wizzyrea> like 99% nope
19:52:13 <ashimema> whose going to front such a project.. how do we go about maintaining it?
19:52:26 <ashimema> should such layouts go through our own SO/QA process etc?
19:52:35 <ashimema> before being submitted upstream?
19:53:11 <tcohen> I'd postpone this until we really need a custom layout
19:53:11 <ashimema> forward mirror is it then.. we just need to work out the details between us...
19:53:12 <cait> these are goo dquestions, we need to nail processes down for some of our side projects as well that are hosted on gitlab
19:54:12 <ashimema> I feel like it could warrant it's own mini maintainer each cycle.. a topic expert with a bit of extra power whose responsability it is to make sure our contributions to that project are sound
19:54:20 <ashimema> food for thought
19:54:40 <wizzyrea> on the one hand you don't want people to waste their time
19:54:58 <wizzyrea> on the other -- the person submitting the patch to that other upstream should feel confident enough in their work to submit it there as well?
19:55:24 <thd> Seeing no objection it should be possible to do something without a vote on some occasions if it does not deprecate or break some previous process as with the previous question where deprecating Jessie might interfere with someone's plan's as it is still today the long term stable distribution.
19:55:25 <wizzyrea> without a lot of bureaucracy from our side
19:55:30 <ashimema> indeed
19:56:34 <ashimema> I'm still seriously wondering about even needing to have our own copy that's ahead
19:57:03 <oleonard> We've got a lot to get through... can we table this for now?
19:57:07 <ashimema> feels like we just need to commit to staying up to date with upstream and then people submit back to that project rather than us directly
19:57:28 <thd> If we do not need our own copy ahead then there will be no need to take the trouble to create such.
19:57:32 <ashimema> whilst the project is active that should work fine
19:57:38 <cait> so get your chances into the project... file a bug with koha to updated packaged?
19:57:41 <wizzyrea> ++ to that
19:58:06 <ashimema> we just need a solid process to ensure we stay up to date with upstream.. so the gitlab-ci type stuff perhaps fits there still
19:58:11 <cait> and if we turnout to need something very specific, we create the 'fork'
19:58:21 <ashimema> agreed
19:58:41 <tcohen> NOOP
19:59:06 <ashimema> Feels like we've reached somewhat of a concensus.. I'll write up a summary of this conversation on the bug and we can discus further next meeting if needed?
19:59:42 <wizzyrea> yep
20:00:13 <cait> info?
20:00:14 <wahanui> info is largely out there.. just not especially well summarised
20:00:14 <tcohen> +1
20:00:19 <cait> or an agreed maybe
20:00:20 <ashimema> #info ashimema will write a summary of the above conversation and submit it to the bug..
20:00:34 <ashimema> moving on
20:00:39 <davidnind> +1
20:01:05 <ashimema> #topic What are the workflows with regards maintaining the mana-kb serverside project
20:01:33 <ashimema> So... this one was me
20:01:54 <ashimema> we're not at all clear yet on how we intend on maintaining the mana-kb server project.
20:02:22 <cait> someone from Biblibre around?
20:02:27 <ashimema> We've got a whoe series of bugs open on it, but no clear flow for SO/QA/Pushing/Deploying
20:02:38 <ashimema> no alex_a here :(
20:03:30 <ashimema> We have had bugs recorded in both gitlab and bugzilla.. I've now disabled the gitlab issue tracking and added a link to bugzilla instead (so we're at least only tracking in one place now)
20:03:39 <ashimema> but how do we envisage actually testing any code that's submitted for that project?
20:03:58 <ashimema> open to the floor.. basically.. I need help understanding how to move things forward there
20:04:15 <cait> basically I think next time we need to have this discussion before integration :)
20:04:36 <cait> I have no idea how to handle it well, but I think a first step would be to flesh out the wiki for Mana (and Hea): https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration
20:04:55 <cait> right now we haven't even documented who runs the server that we ship by defalut and who can be approached
20:05:13 <ashimema> as the most involved there aren't here right now.. I'm going to suggest we move on as we're already an hour in.
20:05:19 <ashimema> I'll bring this one back up as required next meeting no doubt
20:05:33 <cait> I'd love ot see this not limited to people from the company hosting, but like other services to include other people as well
20:05:45 <ashimema> #info Mana (and HEA) discussion shelved untill next meeting.
20:06:17 <ashimema> agreed.. but I think it needs to start with the original authors to help get more people onboard with it.
20:06:35 <ashimema> #topic Moving PayPal payments into a plugin
20:06:36 <josef_moravec> I think the standard SO/QA proccess would be great for side projects too...
20:06:45 <ashimema> tcohen.. another of yours..
20:06:58 <tcohen> amoyano's
20:07:43 * cait waves at amoyano
20:07:52 <amoyano> Sorry
20:08:05 * ashimema adds joesf_moravec to his list of interested Mana parties and will approach him tomorrow with idea's regarding how to bring it inline with our SO/QA process
20:08:06 <amoyano> I made a plugin that implements paypal logic
20:08:18 <tcohen> #link https://gitlab.com/thekesolutions/plugins/koha-plugin-pay-via-paypal
20:08:26 <ashimema> amoyano++
20:08:35 <tcohen> amoyano++
20:08:58 <amoyano> now, plugin and logic within koha can cohexist
20:09:17 <amoyano> but it would be nice to deprecate the code in next releases
20:09:25 <ashimema> so.. this can run alongside the existing in core paypal if I understand it correctly (for now)
20:09:43 <amoyano> yes, that's right
20:09:48 <ashimema> and we can work on a plan to transisition out the core support over a couple of cycles and help people move to using the plugin as an alternative?
20:09:57 <ashimema> brill
20:10:04 <cait> I have talked to tochen about it - one regression would be translatability, but I tihnk you have been working on a solution?
20:10:27 * ashimema really wants to work on a 'plugin store' at some point soon
20:10:56 <josef_moravec> ashimema++
20:11:02 <thd> What is the translatability solution?
20:11:06 <alexbuckley> ashimema++
20:11:11 <cait> to explain, the paypal core code includes some strings that would be not translatable with our current approach to plugins
20:11:22 <amoyano> we use the eds approach
20:11:41 <amoyano> placing translatable strings in .inc files
20:11:44 <ashimema> what is the eds approach?
20:11:59 <tcohen> https://github.com/ebsco/edsapi-koha-plugin/tree/master/Koha/Plugin/EDS/bootstrap/includes/lang
20:12:29 <cait> is there a fallbadk to english if an entry would be missing?
20:12:49 <amoyano> yes, that's the default language
20:13:11 <tcohen> it uses getlanguage
20:13:15 <cait> amoyano++ :) I was long waiting for this
20:13:16 <ashimema> I think plugins authors need to be responsible for their translatability and translations.. but we need to advocate some best practices
20:13:49 <ashimema> and.. with a plugins store we could highlight 'better' and 'worse' supported plugins which would include how well maintained the translations are.
20:13:51 <amoyano> that's what we've been trying to do
20:13:59 <amoyano> including gitlab-ci
20:14:00 <cait> it could be a requirement for acceptance into the store... or at least a searchable criteria
20:14:19 <ashimema> agreed cait
20:14:47 * ashimema has plans for said project.. I'm building an RFC at the moment and then will start coding and then look for additional volunteers
20:14:50 <ashimema> but that's another story ;)
20:15:09 <cait> :)
20:15:22 <cait> so what is the proposed timeline? to get discussion back on track :)
20:15:29 <ashimema> shall we jump on again
20:15:58 <ashimema> #info Theke (amoyano in particular) have build a Paypal online payments plugin
20:16:20 <cait> I think we could deprecate the core code with 19.11
20:16:22 <tcohen> cait: it only lacks all currently supported languages
20:16:23 <cait> having the plugin as option
20:16:28 <cait> and then have it removed in 20.05
20:16:29 <ashimema> #info We should look at deprecating the core PayPal code some time during the next couple of cycles
20:16:37 <tcohen> we can fix that with a script
20:16:51 <ashimema> #info We need to work on further plugin guidlines and infrestucture (a plugin store for example) to build a path ahead for this.
20:17:25 <cait> tcohen: if you could use existing translations to populate the plugin ones that would be awesome
20:17:26 <ashimema> I'd say we can aim for 19.11 but keep 20.05 as a backstop
20:17:42 * ashimema shivers as he realises he just used a brexit term
20:17:49 <amoyano> there is a release available at https://gitlab.com/thekesolutions/plugins/koha-plugin-pay-via-paypal/-/releases for anyone who cares to try
20:17:58 * cait hands ashimema some gin with arugula
20:18:27 <ashimema> #link https://gitlab.com/thekesolutions/plugins/koha-plugin-pay-via-paypal/-/releases PayPal Plugin
20:18:57 <ashimema> how are people doing.. shall we knock off any more or are we running out of steam
20:19:21 <cait> i tihnk having jajm for the mojo one could be nice
20:19:28 * ashimema is happy to postpone the next ones for next meeting if people are struggling
20:19:45 <cait> is there something peopl eneed an urgent decision on in the list still?
20:19:46 <ashimema> Skip to review of coding guidlines I reckon
20:19:57 <tcohen> I'm leaving now, sorry!
20:19:57 * amoyano has to go, and says goodbye to everyone
20:20:09 <ashimema> I don't think the other two are painful
20:20:14 <thd> I am happy for either choice.
20:20:23 <ashimema> SQL12 was for tcohen in the coding guidlines
20:20:34 <cait> maybe postpone that too?
20:20:47 <ashimema> Right..
20:21:07 <ashimema> #info remainder of General topic for discussion will be posponed to the next meeting
20:21:22 <ashimema> #topc Review of coding guidelines
20:21:53 <ashimema> #info We will postpone the review of the coding guidelines untill the next meetng when those invovled should be present.
20:21:55 <ashimema> #topic Set time of next meeting
20:22:00 <ashimema> Right.. that all important last one.
20:22:15 <ashimema> two weeks time, back to EU afternoon?
20:22:19 <ashimema> does that suit most..
20:23:05 <cait> sounds good to me (being in Europe)
20:24:03 <ashimema> so that's the 10th right..
20:24:07 <hayley> Today's meeting time suits better for us NZers, we'd love to keep attending but it's hard if it's super early morning
20:24:18 <ashimema> General meeting that day in the evening for us eu's
20:24:25 <wizzyrea> it rotates around the world :)
20:24:28 <wizzyrea> the time
20:24:28 <wahanui> the time is, like, har dto find,... but i put in cait's todo - just tons in there already
20:24:40 <wizzyrea> forget the time
20:24:40 <wahanui> wizzyrea: I forgot time
20:24:48 <hayley> Alrighty :)
20:24:54 <cait> heh wahanui
20:24:59 <alexbuckley> :)
20:25:01 <ashimema> I'm hoping to stick to a rotation of two times.. with the second time being that bit later for the europeans than it has been last couple of cycles.. in the hopes of catching you guys in NZ
20:25:05 <ashimema> :)
20:25:25 <alexbuckley> thanks ashimema!
20:25:26 <cait> hm not sure if later works
20:25:27 <ashimema> so next one will likely be terrible for you guys.. but then after that a much better one again
20:25:31 <cait> maybe more an early morning one
20:25:39 <wizzyrea> (but I totally know that it sucks for nzers)
20:25:46 <cait> for euorpe
20:25:49 <cait> to catch nz in the evening
20:25:54 <cait> like we catch them now in the morning
20:25:56 <ashimema> early morning kills the US doesn't it?
20:26:03 <cait> it always kills somoene
20:27:00 <cait> it's always bad for some timezone, that should read
20:27:45 <davidnind> We don't won't anyone to be killed! :-D
20:28:19 <ashimema> 7am UK = 6PM NZ but 2AM USA
20:28:56 <cait> yep that's the issue
20:28:56 <ashimema> 8pm UK = 7am NZ = 4pm USA
20:29:04 <cait> this is late for Europe too, 9pm
20:29:13 <ashimema> that certainly seems like the golden hour if we want to try and include as many as possible
20:29:17 <cait> well...10 30 now and my laundry is waiting :)
20:29:48 <ashimema> lets stick to afternoon EU for the next one.. i'd like to catch biblibre for the HEA and Mana points
20:29:51 <ashimema> so..
20:29:56 <cait> I think it being outside work ours is an issue for quite a lot
20:29:56 <ashimema> sorry NZ.. I love you all really
20:30:20 <thd> I prefer the early morning meeting times when they happen because I have not needed to go out yet and I never have trouble going back to sleep if necessary.
20:30:23 <hayley> we understand :)
20:31:20 <ashimema> so..
20:31:26 <ashimema> does 10th Aug, 14:00 UTC sound reasonable for everyone else
20:32:28 <ashimema> #info Next meeting: 10 August 2019, 14:00:00 UTC
20:32:29 <ashimema> done
20:32:30 <ashimema> #endmeeting