13:23:09 <ashimema> #startmeeting General IRC meeting 16 October 2019
13:23:09 <huginn> Meeting started Wed Oct 16 13:23:09 2019 UTC.  The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:23:09 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:23:09 <huginn> The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_16_october_2019'
13:23:29 <ashimema> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_16_October_2019 Agenda
13:23:44 <ashimema> #topic Introductions
13:23:50 <ashimema> #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
13:24:32 <thd> #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
13:24:33 <Joubu> #info Jonathan Druart
13:24:35 <oleonard> #info Owen Leonard, here for 5 minutes
13:24:39 <tcohen> #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
13:24:43 <cait> #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
13:26:32 <kidclamp> #info Nick Clemens, ByWaterSolutions
13:27:38 <cait> fridos: meetng time :)
13:28:03 <ashimema> #topic Announcements
13:28:19 <ashimema> #info Release dates are out, check the community calendar
13:28:40 <ashimema> #link https://koha-community.org/calendar/ Calendar
13:28:42 <fridos> #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre, France
13:29:07 * fridos whould like to discuss on Bug 23414
13:29:07 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23414 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Needs Signoff , Improve performance of C4/XSLT/buildKohaItemsNamespace
13:29:10 <fridos> last comment
13:29:22 <ashimema> #info Testing of Debian 10 has been added to Jenkins, some packaing issue need resolving before we can call it a supported release.
13:29:44 <fridos> ashimema: is there a Bug nb already ?
13:29:54 <ashimema> any other announcements from anyone?
13:30:06 <thd> Koha Wiki database migration from Postgres to MySQL has been tested to work without errors or warnings for the past week.  Three columb sizes had to increase.
13:30:17 <ashimema> for D10.. I don't believe so yet
13:30:33 <ashimema> #info Koha Wiki database migration from Postgres to MySQL has been tested to work without errors or warnings for the past week.  Three columb sizes had to increase.
13:30:53 <thd> I am currently checking $wgDBmysql5 to avoid database corruption.
13:31:07 <ashimema> #topic Update on releases
13:31:17 <ashimema> rmaints?
13:31:17 <wahanui> rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea
13:31:53 <fridos> yep 19.05.x is a bit late on master
13:31:54 <ashimema> #info 19.11 is coming along nicely, it's been a slow cycle but we're not in bad shape. SO and QA are picking up now we're nearing the end of the cycle.
13:33:47 <ashimema> #info 19.05.x is trailing master a little, but generally in good condition.
13:33:57 <fridos> ashimema: do you know when we start peparing roles for next cycle ?
13:34:06 <ashimema> #info Other maintained branches continue to tick along.
13:34:15 <ashimema> I was going to ask that today actually
13:34:29 <ashimema> #topic General discussion
13:35:05 <cait> fridos: your bug?
13:35:26 <fridos> its not linked to my RMaint work
13:35:31 <ashimema> I intend to add the roles for 20.05 page later today
13:35:41 <fridos> cool
13:35:51 <ashimema> Lets start drumming up interest for the next team
13:36:10 <fridos> i think i may apply for an old(old)stable to be there for ES
13:36:14 <ashimema> probably with elections next meeting.. that'll fall in line with the usual scheme
13:36:53 <ashimema> #info The 20.05 roles page will be available for people to add their names before the end of the day.
13:37:01 <ashimema> #info Intention is to hold the election at the next general meeting.
13:37:16 <cait> ashimema++
13:37:19 <ashimema> frido++
13:37:22 <fridos> ashimema++
13:37:59 * fridos as to look at security bugs that whould come in next 19.05.x
13:38:04 <ashimema> general discussion.. there was a bug you wanted to talk about fridos  , now's a good time ;)
13:38:21 <fridos> yep oki
13:38:35 <fridos> see last comment https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23414#c4
13:38:35 <huginn> 04Bug 23414: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Needs Signoff , Improve performance of C4/XSLT/buildKohaItemsNamespace
13:38:54 <fridos> it seems we need to make a decision, whether to use the data from Zebra, or use the one on the DB
13:39:27 <fridos> in my opinion its crazy to use the datas from zebra
13:39:30 <cait> can you explain a bit more?
13:39:37 <fridos> and how does it work with ES ...
13:39:44 <cait> are we talking result list or detail page?
13:39:50 <fridos> staff search shows items left hand
13:40:00 <cait> and I have been told there is a performance benefit of using zebra for item data i think
13:40:00 <fridos> those info come from indexed record
13:40:08 <ashimema> interesting
13:40:13 <cait> it's true
13:40:24 <cait> that's why youc an recognize an old index by different status of items between detail and results
13:40:24 <fridos> i bet the performance is to be proved
13:40:35 <fridos> (with a good DB cache)
13:40:40 <cait> i've just been told by somene it was a goal to save he data for display in elastic
13:40:41 <kidclamp> I think in the future using the data from the search engine would be ideal - we update it on every item change, why do we not trust it?
13:40:52 <cait> i think i've been also told it's why our searches with zebra are slow
13:40:59 <cait> that we do too much processing/db stuff on top
13:41:27 <fridos> indeed but i think only when ES will be the major searchengine
13:41:57 <fridos> there are known issues when too much items
13:42:16 <kidclamp> I think as tcohen  pointed out, some of this can be done later, but I think this offers an imporvement now
13:42:31 <ashimema> does zebra not hold a suitaly up to date copy of this data at the moment then?
13:42:35 <kidclamp> the searchResults subroutine has a lot of weirdness, trying to clean it up slowly
13:42:39 <fridos> yep the bug itself is great
13:42:47 * ashimema hasn't read this code yet
13:43:16 <kidclamp> tcohen about? he is working on this area in a larger sense
13:43:43 <ashimema> I'm thinking we create a bug to detail a general move towards fetching from the search index only... feels like as we're hitting that to start with and assuming the data is all returned there why do additional calls outside
13:44:27 <ashimema> he's in another meeting
13:44:47 <ashimema> lets open another bug for the next stages and detail the discussion there.
13:45:14 <ashimema> let this bug get moving as it's already and improvement.
13:45:41 <ashimema> #info We agreed to move forward with bug 23414 and add a new bug to discus a general decision on where to pull data from in the future.
13:45:41 <huginn> 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23414 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Needs Signoff , Improve performance of C4/XSLT/buildKohaItemsNamespace
13:46:22 <fridos> ++
13:46:28 <kidclamp> ++
13:47:18 <ashimema> #topic Set time of next meeting
13:48:06 <ashimema> November 13th suit people?
13:48:30 <thd> +1
13:49:28 <ashimema> strictly we should make it a late one to include the NZ croud to follow the pattern
13:50:01 <ashimema> as we're taking the vote for the next team.. do we want to stick with the late slot?
13:50:22 <cait> it#s not too bad now with dls
13:50:26 <cait> daylight savings
13:50:27 <cait> i think
13:51:06 <cait> for europe, but sitll outside of normal work hours
13:52:10 <thd> Daylight savings change in the autumn should make the same late UTC time worse for attending.
13:53:13 <cait> i meant europe and nz will be 10 instead of 12 hours apart
13:53:22 <ashimema> 13 November, 21:00 UTC.. that's 9pm London, 4pm New York, 10am Wellington
13:53:23 <thd> Perhaps we should change for 1 hour UTC earlier to have a consistent local time.
13:54:20 <ashimema> kidclamp.. how does that fit with Bywater afternoon meetings?
13:54:22 <thd> Or do I have it backwards?
13:54:36 <ashimema> 20:00 better for people in general?
13:54:47 <ashimema> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=13&month=11&year=2019&p1=136&p2=179&p3=264&iv=0
13:54:50 <thd> I may have it backwards
13:54:53 <fridos> 20 or 21 for me is good
13:54:54 <kidclamp> no all staff meetings at 4pm
13:54:55 <ashimema> I cheated ;)
13:55:09 <kidclamp> but I can't speak for individual calendars
13:55:47 <ashimema> so 3pm would be better for you guys..
13:56:00 <ashimema> trying to avoid you're all staff ;)
13:56:04 <thd> One hour UTC later gives the same local time as recently.
13:56:08 <kidclamp> kyle usually gone by 3, but that works
13:56:55 * ashimema prefers one hour earlier personally.. else it's a rather late one in london ;)
13:57:16 <ashimema> lets stick to 20:00.. it's a pretty reasonably slot for all
13:57:34 <thd> Does 1 hour earlier work in Wellington?
13:57:55 <ashimema> 9am
13:58:33 <ashimema> I believe so.. we're had them around at that time before
13:58:40 <ashimema> #info Next meeting: 13 November 2019, 20:00 UTC
13:58:42 <thd> Is 9am in the middle of commuting or just after>
13:58:46 <thd> ?
13:58:54 <ashimema> we'll stick to that for now and I'll ask rangi later to confirm it's OK
13:58:57 <Joubu> ho, I had a topic actually :D
13:59:04 <ashimema> just after commuting
13:59:06 <Joubu> but please end it :)
13:59:08 <ashimema> ooh..
13:59:14 <ashimema> fire away Joubu..
13:59:18 <ashimema> I've not called it yet ;)
13:59:27 <Joubu> "request to be added to paid support"
13:59:30 <ashimema> #topic More general discussion
13:59:43 <Joubu> we/you should answer, at least give an answer
14:00:02 <Joubu> remove the list, update it, freeze it, whatever you want. But these guys should get an answer
14:00:18 <ashimema> where do the requests go?
14:00:23 <cait> there have been quite a lot lately
14:00:25 <caroline_catlady> good morning!
14:00:28 <cait> i am not sure if they have been added
14:00:30 <ashimema> just on the mailing list or is there any more formal route?
14:00:38 <cait> the mailing list ist the defined formal rout
14:00:39 <cait> e
14:01:08 <cait> #link https://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/how-to-get-listed/
14:01:18 <ashimema> and is it listed as anyone's role to reply?
14:01:33 <ashimema> perhaps we should more formally assign that job as part of someone's role ;)
14:01:36 <cait> i think liz was the one to add usually, - i am not sure someone else knows to how to do it
14:02:08 <Joubu> [off] They cannot read a one line requirement "add a link to k-c.org", so not sure how they could offer good support anyway
14:02:10 <cait> [off] https://www.hypernova.fi/koha/ also wanted to be added - didn't seem to be
14:02:26 <cait> I thnk we have a general problem there - witht he add to listing
14:02:30 <cait> i've seen oens that had the link
14:02:41 <ashimema> realistically the website maintanence should really be under a particular role.. it all needs keeping up with.
14:02:45 <Joubu> Also, I had a list of entries to remove
14:03:14 <cait> i am happy to help - but the plugin for the listing is a mystery to me
14:03:28 <cait> kidclamp: is LIz around?
14:03:36 <ashimema> indeed.. it's not at all obvious
14:03:54 <cait> it was 3-4 requets in the last 6-8 weeks or so
14:04:17 <ashimema> I'll add a role to the next cycle so we have a formal 'go to' person for managing such things.. at the moment you just have to happen to know that Liz does most of it.
14:05:11 <cait> i think we may need instructions
14:05:18 <cait> there is people who can edit the website - if we knew how to
14:05:34 <ashimema> indeed.. need liz to reply
14:06:15 <Joubu> not sure the name of the person in charge of that list should be public :D
14:06:34 <ashimema> #info We need to sort out a process for maintaining the 'paid support list' on the website
14:06:39 <cait> but the person responsible needs towatch the mailing list for requests .)
14:07:01 <ashimema> well.. I was more thinking of a go to person for general website maintanence
14:08:15 <cait> ok
14:08:46 <ashimema> I think we're pretty much done meeting wise.. we can continue this conversation after of course
14:08:47 <ashimema> #endmeeting