16:00:45 #startmeeting Documentation IRC meeting 16 December 2021 16:00:46 Meeting started Thu Dec 16 16:00:45 2021 UTC. The chair is davidnind. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:46 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:00:46 The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_irc_meeting_16_december_2021' 16:00:56 hi davidnind :) 16:00:59 #info Agenda https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Documentation_IRC_meeting_2021-12-16 16:01:18 great to have you as part of the team! 16:01:25 #topic Introductions 16:01:33 #info David Nind, New Zealand 16:01:34 thanks; excited to be here! 16:01:41 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 16:01:41 #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe, UK (lurking on his day off) 16:02:00 #info Aude Charillon, PTFS Europe, UK 16:02:09 ashimema: dedicated! 16:02:29 :) 16:02:29 ashimema: wondered what you were doing here! ;) 16:03:01 I am tempted to send him off to have fun... but worry a little where he'd end up :) 16:03:06 Reminder came through whilst the was on the school run ;-) 16:03:38 #topic Review of action points 16:03:51 There are no action points! 16:03:59 Fresh start :) 16:04:01 bye 16:04:28 Action is to make lots of actions 16:05:19 are we supposed to create them now? :) 16:05:21 But I will go through the last few (from earlier in 2021 and late 2020) and add any still current or relevant to Bugzilla 16:06:09 #action davidnind to look at previous meetings and add any current or still relevant items as tasks to Bugzilla 16:06:44 #topic Project updates 16:07:06 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Documentation_Team#Projects 16:07:49 I'm adding these as tasks to Bugzilla (not quite there yet) - but no other update than that at the moment 16:08:31 ok 16:08:35 davidnind++ 16:08:36 If any of them are of interest feel free to add your name to them! 16:09:10 aude_c: I hope things like Bugzilla and Git are not too overwhelming eyt! 16:09:19 still feeling a bit too new to this to add my name there 16:09:19 ..yet 16:09:53 davidnind: thanks, I've used them in small ways so just a case of getting more familiar :) 16:10:02 I'll take a look, see if any would suit my help.. but I won't be active until the new year ;) 16:10:44 we need to update our documentation to make it easier to get up to speed, so a fresh perspective will be very helpful 16:10:44 aude_c I'm always open to help and guide, just poke me ;) 16:11:01 thanks ashimema! 16:11:02 ashimema: thank you! 16:11:40 #topic What's been done so far 16:11:47 I hope to help some too, but also want to know how docs team works, so I can make sure QA takes care of things important to the team 16:11:51 * ashimema wondered about checking for visual editors for sphinx again.. make contributions a little easier 16:12:46 maybe we shoudl also think about splitting some more files, navigation can be hard because of length 16:13:01 you can also use markdown with Sphinx, so something to look at - a lot of similarity - markdown is a lot simpler though 16:13:15 i've tried some visual editors, but it can be alittle hard where links and pictures are concerned, for text is usually no issue 16:13:44 What's Sphinx? 16:13:46 markdown might be interesting - more people might know it 16:13:52 one of the projects is to reorganise the contents (long overdue) 16:13:59 Sphinx is the software used to create the manual 16:14:04 oh 16:14:07 I think the format is... restructured text ? 16:14:24 Sphinx is the tool that takes the source "code" for the manul and then turns it into HTML or PDF, ePub, etc 16:14:28 someone correct me if I remember wrong please 16:14:59 reStructuredText - is a lightweight markup klanguage - like HTML but a bit more constrained... 16:15:08 You all described it perfectly 16:15:17 ok, thank you 16:15:24 davidnind++ 16:15:43 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/ReStructuredText_-_Tips_and_Tricks 16:16:02 one thing to maybe keep on mind when restructuring the manual - we also link from Koha to it, so it would be good to have a nice landing point for each page in Koha 16:16:46 good point 16:16:50 right now we jump to the chapter in the manual... maybe it could also be a shorter summary page with links that relate to the topic 16:17:20 but finding quick help what goes in a field/form might still be a goal when starting from Koha 16:17:45 or a use case 16:17:45 a use case is, like, just wanting more options for date in notices 16:18:18 wahanui: forget use case 16:18:19 cait1: I forgot use case 16:18:20 ideally we would have linked help from pages in Koha, but there is probably some work to get to that stage 16:18:44 can you describe that idea a bit more? 16:19:45 sounds like a good idea, so people using Koha can find the information quicker, rather than googling... 16:20:38 embedded type help like microsoft or other tools where you click on the help button and it takes you somewhere (hopefully with the answers) 16:20:55 I'm not sure whether Koha used to to that in the distant past... 16:21:16 we do that now 16:21:22 but i might be misunderstanding 16:21:26 I thought it did that already 16:21:43 the Help link in the upper right corner in Koha links to the most specific spot in the manual for the current page 16:21:50 Can't say I've used it for a while personally 16:21:57 that's my understanding too (I use it a lot!!) 16:21:59 there is a mapping for each template file to a section in the manual 16:22:02 Previously the help files were local which created a problem keeping them in sync with the online manual 16:22:19 I seem to remember you can even set the base URL to point to your own docs site if you wanted to 16:22:26 exactly, also with translations (needed to do them twice) 16:22:34 :-) 16:22:41 Glad it does still work 16:22:42 yes, that's also a feature, with the docs url you can also make sure it goes to the preferred language 16:23:03 we have set ours to german and the manuals on translate at the moment (because the ones on the website do't have current translations often) 16:23:22 How it works might be good to have documented somewhere.. it's not something I ever check for in QA or think to do as a dev 16:23:27 I should probably 16:23:43 it's necessary for new pages added... but you are right, we need to check the help link 16:24:21 if you don't have a sepcific link, I believe the help will just link to the manual start page 16:24:31 Hi all, sorry I'm late 16:24:34 #action davidnind to add a task to Bugzilla to document how the linking from Koha to the manual works 16:24:44 hi lucyvh! 16:25:16 no problem! 16:26:11 where was I? 16:26:54 "What’s been done so far"? 16:27:15 hehe - easy to get distracted! 16:27:33 My fault, apologies 16:27:45 haha, yes; I wasn't sure where to start explaining to Lucy what you were talking about! 16:27:56 I've not done too much more since my update to the mailing list 16:28:26 #info Documentation Manager update - 2021-12-07 https://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-docs/2021-December/000271.html 16:28:52 davidnind: you can also use #link url linktext if you want 16:29:19 our IRC is logged, so you can always keep an eye on what the developers are up to :-D http://irc.koha-community.org/ 16:30:08 the only other thing has mostly been trying to work out the translation works -= is on the agenda lately 16:30:18 thanks a lot for that 16:30:31 is it a good moment to ask workflow questions? 16:30:38 davidnind: thanks (about the IRC logs) :D 16:31:28 cait1: that's next on the agenda 16:31:39 * cait1 will wiat 16:32:11 that's it from me on things - finally actually starting to do some actual writing! 16:32:25 anything else you have all been working on that you would like to share? 16:33:19 bearing in mind I haven't been that active until now - my apologies for that fro the last release cycle 16:33:20 nothing yet; planning to start looking at it properly with lucyvh early January 16:34:21 great - things tend to get busy in real life at this time of the eyar! 16:34:44 I haven't been abe to contribute much this year, hoping that changes in the new year 16:34:52 hopefully I will have some of the Wiki pages updated on processes and step-by-step instructions 16:34:54 i think only complaining about the translations... so not being very helpful 16:35:09 Great that aude_c is getting involved 16:35:18 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Documentation_Team 16:35:31 it's great to have you all involved! 16:36:15 always helpful cait1 - hopefully we can get the translation stuff sorted out and running smoothly 16:36:47 #topic Content development guidelines 16:37:41 You can go first if you like cait1 (content development guidelines = things like a style guide, terminology, processes, and how we do things) 16:37:57 my question was more about how we workwith the spreadsheets 16:38:14 i think the original idea was to mark all bugs that require docs updates with the keyword "Manual" in bugzilla 16:38:20 so you could then search for that and work throught hem 16:38:33 and then remove the Manual keyword when done 16:38:57 is this still the idea - and shoudl we then wait for you to keywords (or help with that) / amke a note on the spreadsheet? 16:40:10 That's how I see it working as well, for bug 29473 (21.11) and 29460 (22.05) I'm using that more as a way for me to make sure all the release changes are reviewed 16:40:10 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29473 normal, P1 - high, ---, david, ASSIGNED , [DOCS 21.11] Documentation changes for 21.11 16:40:20 bug 29460 16:40:20 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29460 normal, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to stable , Typo 'pendin g approval' 16:41:04 so basically I will review what is pushed and see if I thing a change is required to the documentation and add the manual keyword 16:41:06 * ashimema would like to see the SO/QA/Push process link up with the docs process.. making sure we somehow keep on top of things.. 16:41:10 ok, so maybe if we get to work on something that has not been 'keyworded' or actually always, we could also add a little comment with the merge request maybe? 16:41:19 Cool, that works 16:41:40 merge request _link_ 16:42:18 for 22.05 this is up-to-date and you can see the list - there is a link in the agenda - it is quite long! 16:42:53 I'm still wokring through the 21.11 ones to add the manual keyword, but there are quite a few already with it 16:44:10 It's great to have the spreadsheet with everything centralised 16:44:12 cait1: yes, that woudl be good 16:45:00 I think we need something more that just removing the 'manual' keyword. Could we have a 'Manual - done' tag for something similar 16:45:20 I might also be wrong about what needs documenting - architecture and developer specific things aren't covered by the manual 16:46:03 lucyvh: that's also an idea, it might not work in the beginning, but culd be helpful in the future 16:46:25 Manual and Manual_Done keywords 16:46:38 I was proposing that we add a comment to the bug saying: 16:46:38 1. Changes for this bug are now incorporated into the manual. 16:46:38 2. Here are the changes we have made (a link to the commit and section in the manual). 16:46:38 3. Indicate that any feedback or suggestions are welcome. 16:46:38 4. Remove the Manual keyword from the bug, if it was used. 16:46:48 This will give contributors to the bug a chance to make sure we've reflected the change correctly 16:47:35 sounds good 16:47:49 What's the process of adding a keyword to Bugzilla? 16:48:07 That sounds good 16:48:31 It would be useful to show what we have done as well 16:48:56 I think I can do that actually 16:49:06 ashimema probably too sec 16:49:32 i can 16:49:33 #action davidnind to look at getting a keyword added to Bugzilla to capture that the documentation/manual has been updated for this bug 16:49:37 most seemto prefer undercores 16:49:43 I cando it right now if you want 16:49:44 great 16:49:54 Manual_done ok? or Manual_Done? 16:50:02 go for it - one less action for me 16:50:18 Manual_Updated? 16:50:21 ok 16:50:25 anyone have any preferences? 16:50:28 i seee one with - too heh 16:50:30 Manual-updated? 16:50:38 +1 16:50:47 +1 16:50:58 +1 16:51:09 Indicates that the changes from this bug have been incorporated into the Koha manual. 16:51:13 for a description 16:51:35 okay, so once we've updated the manual for a bug, we change the keyword to Manual-updated 16:51:40 sounds good 16:52:08 thanks cait1! 16:52:21 okay 10 minutes to go... 16:52:43 I've changed the description for Manual a litlte too: Indicates that this bug makes changes that will need to be documented in the Koha manual. 16:53:19 cait1++ 16:54:03 I've been adding [DOCS] to Bugzilla tasks as I add them or review them - see https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&f1=keywords&f2=component&j_top=OR&known_name=Documentation%20To-do&list_id=394372&o1=allwords&o2=equals&query_based_on=Documentation%20To-do&query_format=advanced&v1=Manual&v2=Documentation 16:55:12 is this helpful and should we expand - or just go with that for the moment. For me it makes documentation bugs *tasks) stand a bit more in Bugzilla. 16:55:34 we have a documentation component, but it's true that often you don't spot it right away 16:55:38 especially in the email inbox 16:55:42 I like it 16:56:08 I don't envy your inbox! 16:56:29 okay, I'll stick with that for the moment and keep it simple 16:56:29 I can add a list to the dashboard that tracks the manual keyword 16:57:05 yah... i am behind with bug mails this week already again 16:57:08 I use the dashboard a lot as my starting point for picking community work to get on with 16:57:48 that would be great - we can see how it goes, at least make the work on the documentation a bit more visible and perhaps encourage contributions... 16:57:53 Would that be helpful for just another place to get confused by? 16:58:01 Indeed 16:58:19 I also like hat idea :) 16:58:25 davidnind: quick, action him! 16:58:29 Wouldn't be too hard to have docs leaderboards like we have for SO and QA come to think of it 16:58:51 Hehe.. Okies.. I'll take a look over Xmas . Action me ;) 16:58:58 I better do some work then:-D 16:59:17 i think you'll need a combination of keywords and component + manual - i have a saved shared search for the open ones 16:59:31 it was a little tricky to get right, until Caroline approved :) 16:59:52 #action ashimema to look at adding docs tasks to the dashboard https://dashboard.koha-community.org/ 17:00:20 using the version released in helps as well 17:00:52 ashimema++ 17:01:08 I'll defer the other agenda items to the enxt meeting! 17:01:17 #topic Set time for next meeting 17:01:31 Does this time work for you all - earlier, later? 17:01:50 It's okay for me (normally...) 17:02:00 it works for me. Earlier would work too 17:02:04 same 17:02:09 but it hink earlier is hard for davidnind 17:02:19 12 hours to nz currently - so now is 6am 17:02:28 oh, I'm thinking about time zones the wrong way, then! Sorry 17:02:41 I could make it half an hour earlier if that works better for the UK/Europe 17:02:46 aude_c: i think nz is about the only one i get right after years of training and especially in winter :) 17:03:05 cait1: haha! I'll get used to it 17:03:10 it's basically 12 hours difference, give or take daylight savings 17:03:36 yes, 10 in summer (in the future), 12 in winter and very confusing 11 for a short time period in betweens 17:03:52 but I am distracting ... concentration is fading a little 17:04:03 So, keep the same time? 17:04:18 okay, I'll make it UTC 15:30 and we can see how it goes 17:04:34 Same time works for me 17:04:42 no need for you to get up earlier on our behalf davidnind! 17:05:16 the meeting started at 4pm in the UK so easy for us 17:05:39 5pm here is good too - it's a little late, but that means that things have quieted down a bit which also helps 17:05:43 okay, we'll stick with 16:00 and see how it goes... 17:06:18 the other idea I had was to have every 3rd or 4th meeting a video conference one, any thoughts? 17:06:33 that would be nice 17:07:01 Great idea 17:07:11 that way it would be easier to demonstrate things and it can be easier to discuss some topics 17:07:13 Great idea 17:07:31 I'll schedule it in 17:08:11 is the 6th okay for the first meeting for next year - basically the 1st Thursday (or Friday?) of the month? 17:08:33 yes for me 17:08:46 yes 17:08:49 sorry, got distracted :) 17:09:01 #info Next meeting: 6 January 2022, 16:00 UTC 17:09:04 yep 17:09:11 #endmeeting