21:10:41 <tuxayo> #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 11 May 2022
21:10:41 <huginn> Meeting started Wed May 11 21:10:41 2022 UTC.  The chair is tuxayo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:10:41 <huginn> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:10:41 <huginn> The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_11_may_2022'
21:11:16 <tuxayo> Actually it's the 12th in Aotearoa/NZ ^^
21:11:47 <tuxayo> #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_11_May_2022 Today's agenda
21:11:51 <tuxayo> #topic Introductions
21:11:56 <tuxayo> #info Victor Grousset, Tuxayo ASBL, France
21:12:01 <aleisha> #info Aleisha Amohia, Catalyst IT New Zealand
21:12:08 <alexbuckley> #info Alex Buckley, Catalyst IT New Zealand
21:12:16 <fridolin> #info Fridolin Somers, BibLibre, France
21:12:29 <rangi[m]> #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, New Zealand
21:12:35 <davidnind> #info David Nind, New Zealand
21:12:49 <fridolin> NZ is in the place \o/
21:12:57 <aleisha> \o/
21:13:04 <alexbuckley> :)
21:13:22 <thd> #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City [internet back on hooray]
21:13:25 * fridolin waves looking above the sea :D
21:13:51 <tuxayo> Great to have that attendance for a last minute call!
21:13:59 <tuxayo> #topic Announcements
21:14:04 <aleisha> yes thank you for the reminder tuxayo
21:14:14 <tuxayo> yw
21:14:18 <tuxayo> Anything to announce that doesn't fit the other topics?
21:14:47 <aleisha> kohacon22 announcement?
21:14:48 <davidnind> Call for presentations for KohaCon22 are now open
21:14:54 <fridolin> yep
21:15:02 <tuxayo> great!
21:15:12 <fridolin> [Koha] KohaCon22 Conference Announcement and Call for Presentations
21:15:17 <fridolin> in mailling list
21:16:12 <davidnind> #info Call for presentations for KohaCOn22 are now open (close on 3 June 2022): https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2022-May/057755.html
21:16:28 <aleisha> #link https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2022-May/057755.html
21:16:49 <fridolin> thd: how is the Covid situation is US ? getting better ? i mean this info is important for KohaCon
21:16:50 <tuxayo> davidnind++ aleisha++ I was searching the email
21:17:09 <davidnind> Great that presenters can be in-person and online (live or pre-recorded)
21:17:39 <tuxayo> cool
21:17:48 <thd> In New York City the COVID-19 infection rate is worse every week.
21:17:57 <fridolin> ich
21:18:06 <tuxayo> Much can change about covid until September 20-23rd hopefully it will be okay between two waves ^^
21:18:55 <fridolin> i've traveled throw LA recently, so it will be OK for me
21:19:24 <thd> Major urban areas in the US are expected to have a summer surge of COVID-19.
21:19:37 <fridolin> who from NZ is coming ?
21:19:46 <aleisha> we're not sure if we can attend in person
21:20:08 <tuxayo> > Major urban areas in the US are expected to have a summer surge of COVID-19.
21:20:08 <tuxayo> Good news is that Lawrence is in the middle of nowhere I heard ^^
21:20:42 <aleisha> will definitely be attending online though!
21:21:38 <tuxayo> Anything else to announce? Before the other topics?
21:22:01 <thd> Middle of nowhere helps currently except for traveling in a small tube with 50% air recycling.  Wear a good mask with a tightly fitted seal.
21:22:48 <tuxayo> I forgot to do the usual IRC calls.
21:22:50 <tuxayo> rmaints?
21:22:50 <wahanui> rmaints is khall, AndrewFH, wainui and tuxayo
21:22:53 <tuxayo> qa_team?
21:22:53 <wahanui> qa_team is probably cait, joubu, tuxayo, marcelr, kidclamp, khall, tcohen, ashimema, nugged, kohaputti, petrova
21:22:53 <thd> I have enough exposure from my job to put my off air travel indeffinately.
21:23:18 <aleisha> wainui usually doesnt start this early but i dont think there are any announcements from her as rmaint
21:23:20 <tuxayo> :/
21:23:55 <tuxayo> good so wainui is back :)
21:23:58 <tuxayo> #topic Update from the Release manager (22.05)
21:24:07 <fridolin> yey me
21:24:09 <tuxayo> fridolin: 🎙️
21:24:26 <fridolin> I've pushed this week last enhancements that where passedQA
21:24:38 <aleisha> woohoo!
21:24:42 <fridolin> the remaining ones have tag for 22.11 release
21:24:57 <fridolin> we are now string freeze
21:25:11 <fridolin> only major bugs will be pushed
21:25:25 <aleisha> is there any big recalls stuff i need to turn my attention to?
21:25:27 <fridolin> 1544 commits that far
21:25:57 <fridolin> aleisha: i think not, but have a look at dependancy graph
21:26:29 <fridolin> https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=19532
21:26:45 <tuxayo> aleisha: when people ask about recall, what is the best ressources to link them to? this? https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Catalyst_IT_Recalls
21:27:14 <aleisha> i think so yes - im not sure how much it has moved on from that documentation when the community started chipping in but it should still be mostly accurate!
21:27:31 <tuxayo> "Patch doesn't apply" is also green in the dep graph. Confusing ^^
21:27:39 <fridolin> indeed
21:27:40 <tuxayo> good
21:28:11 <fridolin> Bug 23781 needs some refreshing
21:28:11 <huginn> 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23781 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, aleisha, Patch doesn't apply , Recalls notices and messaging preferences
21:28:31 <aleisha> will put it on my list
21:29:04 <davidnind> thanks aleisha - a good basis for the documentation: I'll try and have something on the manual that can be linked to
21:29:13 <fridolin> aleisha: after 22.05 release you may always ask RMaint of stable branch to backport even enhancements, if it makes sens
21:29:19 <aleisha> thanks davidnind
21:29:29 <aleisha> yes true fridolin
21:29:53 <fridolin> tuxayo: Bug 30733
21:29:53 <huginn> 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30733 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, victor, NEW , Simplify translatable strings
21:29:58 <fridolin> great work
21:30:12 <fridolin> but really to risky at this point, it a large patch
21:30:16 <tuxayo> thanks, I hope it will be able to sneak in
21:30:26 <fridolin> and translation process is already begun
21:31:26 <fridolin> tuxayo: could we imagine backporting it during next cycle ?
21:31:39 <fridolin> or will it generate too much translation work
21:32:01 <tuxayo> It will be more work for the translators compared to if it is merged in the next two days.
21:32:27 <fridolin> but risk of introducing bugs is real no ? large patch
21:33:18 <tuxayo> > or will it generate too much translation work
21:33:19 <tuxayo> If it can be merged quicky, it will be a net gain by removing a lot of horrible strings (replacing with clean ones) and it will compensate that 1 or 2 days will be lost in the beginning of string freeze
21:33:41 <tuxayo> > but risk of introducing bugs is real no ? large patch
21:33:41 <tuxayo> It's large but it's adding <span></span>
21:33:52 <tuxayo> Just that, in a lot of places
21:34:14 <tuxayo> Like bug 29602 which didn't yield any bad surprise IIRC
21:34:14 <huginn> 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29602 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, RESOLVED FIXED, We must be nicer with translators
21:35:21 <tuxayo> via doing searches in the git log for <span></span> I can guarantee that there is no typo or mismatching tags.
21:35:23 <fridolin> ok i'll think about it, but there where already a lot of "late" pushes ;)
21:36:09 <tuxayo> I also checked carefully that an opening or closing tag don't risk to be missing depend on IF and ELSE
21:36:13 <fridolin> 29602 has some effects on places where html is forbiden : Bug 30629
21:36:13 <huginn> 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30629 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , <span> in title of patron card creator template needs to be removed
21:36:39 <fridolin> but indeed speeding up translation work is a blessing
21:37:15 <fridolin> tuxayo: do you have a count of after / before patch
21:37:28 <tuxayo> count of what?
21:37:30 <fridolin> ? like in fr-FR fr example ?
21:37:40 <fridolin> translated / untranslated strings
21:37:52 <fridolin> like in 29602
21:38:35 <tuxayo> > ok i'll think about it, but there where already a lot of "late" pushes ;)
21:38:35 <tuxayo> Indeed it's late sorry, I wish I had knew and realized about this need and possibility of refactoring sooner that 24h ago ^^
21:39:19 <tuxayo> > 29602 has some effects on places where html is forbiden : 30629
21:39:19 <tuxayo> It's well covered about <title> thanks to you warning me yesterday :)
21:39:40 <fridolin> great
21:39:52 <tuxayo> I have been careful about to not put <span> in CSV or JSON output also ^^
21:40:13 <tuxayo> I could have been fooled by an include though
21:40:49 <fridolin> tuxayo: i propose you self-passedQA it , I will have a close eye on it and I may push
21:41:37 <tuxayo> > do you have a count of after / before patch
21:41:39 <tuxayo> ok, I'll redo my count. Expect a number of new small simple string because same as bug 29602 because it's split long complex strings.
21:41:39 <huginn> 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29602 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, RESOLVED FIXED, We must be nicer with translators
21:43:03 <tuxayo> > i propose you self-passedQA it
21:43:03 <tuxayo> I still feel having proofread from other people is needed. Loosing 2 days and messing with strings again would still be worth it for translator. Unless they rush the 1st 48h ^^
21:43:29 <tuxayo> I can test other pages also.
21:43:31 <fridolin> https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29602#c23 here is the counting
21:43:31 <huginn> 04Bug 29602: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, RESOLVED FIXED, We must be nicer with translators
21:44:08 <fridolin> ok we will wait 2 days and relook at it
21:44:38 <tuxayo> thanks for your trust, I didn't though I could convince you that much ^^
21:44:59 <fridolin> look at my comment in 30733 about ":"
21:44:59 <tuxayo> Oh great you did a counting also.
21:46:11 <fridolin> Lets continue meeting
21:46:17 <davidnind> #info Release Manager to consider pushing bug 30733 - Simplify translatable strings (may or may not be risky at this late stage, with translation already started)
21:46:17 <huginn> 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30733 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, victor, NEW , Simplify translatable strings
21:46:42 <tuxayo> I'll study that because our string counting yielded difference results when we did it https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29602#c52
21:46:42 <huginn> 04Bug 29602: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, RESOLVED FIXED, We must be nicer with translators
21:46:52 <tuxayo> > look at my comment in 30733 about ":"
21:46:52 <tuxayo> Thanks, I'll check that out
21:46:53 <aleisha> #info Aleisha may ask 22.05.x rmaint to backport recalls bugs if necessary
21:47:24 <tuxayo> #topic  Updates from the Release Maintainers
21:48:50 <tuxayo> My upstream is flow of patches is low for now so I still have time to mess with translations ^^
21:49:00 <fridolin> XD
21:49:34 <tuxayo> (to polish my patch)
21:49:44 <tuxayo> moving on?
21:50:06 <davidnind> Were you still looking for release maintainers for 20.11, 20.05 and 19.11? https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_22.11
21:51:03 <tuxayo> right, does Wainui or someone else at Catalyst have plans for RMaint next cycle?
21:51:16 <tuxayo> We left that option open.
21:51:55 <aleisha> sorry if it wasn't clear, we are unable to do rmaint this cycle but will be more active with bug wrangling and qa team!
21:52:23 <tuxayo> sound like a good switch :)
21:52:55 <tuxayo> > sorry if it wasn't clear
21:52:55 <tuxayo> It's just that Wainui was away and we forgot to ask before about the future plans.
21:53:07 <tuxayo> #topic Updates from the QA team
21:53:17 <tuxayo> qa_team?
21:53:17 <wahanui> well, qa_team is cait, joubu, tuxayo, marcelr, kidclamp, khall, tcohen, ashimema, nugged, kohaputti, petrova
21:54:17 <fridolin> after release we will define 20.11, 20.05 and 19.11 as unsupported
21:54:41 <tuxayo> #topic Actions from last meeting
21:54:56 <aleisha> should we info that fridolin ?
21:55:09 <fridolin> not necessary
21:55:16 <tuxayo> That's "by default" when there is not rmaint
21:55:32 <aleisha> cool wasnt sure if it had to be minuted :)
21:55:34 <tuxayo> > tuxayo ask confirmation from koha-devel about using Vue3 for the new ERM module.
21:56:05 <tuxayo> Yes, confirmation asked in the ML , and nobody complained ^^
21:56:35 <tuxayo> > cool wasnt sure if it had to be minuted :)
21:56:35 <tuxayo> Maybe I should pay more attention to minutes rather than rely on full log
21:56:50 <tuxayo> #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
21:57:07 <tuxayo> Any topic?
21:57:31 <fridolin> I've looked a bit on bugs about Elasticsearch
21:57:42 <fridolin> still lot of work to do
21:57:49 <fridolin> we should not forget about it
21:57:50 <aleisha> yes i've had a few ES things come up recently
21:58:50 <tuxayo> > still lot of work to do
21:58:51 <tuxayo> Isn't that just bug 25669 ?
21:58:51 <huginn> 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25669 normal, P5 - low, ---, kevin.carnes, In Discussion , ElasticSearch 6: [types removal] Specifying types in put mapping requests is deprecated (incompatible with 7)
21:59:11 <aleisha> a few things have come through on the mailing list of problems people are having with ES
21:59:34 <tuxayo> so new bugs with ES 6?
22:00:13 <fridolin> yep, general behavior bugs
22:00:24 <tuxayo> As if we weren't struggling enough to have ES 7 supported ^^"
22:00:30 <fridolin> some features from Zebra are still missing
22:00:52 <fridolin> creating fields via UI ...
22:01:25 <tuxayo> aleisha: do you ES in production on a lot of libraries?
22:01:56 <aleisha> we're trying to put more onto it recently, i think we have 4 ? now
22:03:38 <fridolin> we at Biblibre have 11 ES
22:03:52 <fridolin> we try to create each new Koha with ir
22:03:52 <tuxayo> ok, somewhat similar to other support provider I think? (trying to recall from the hackfest)
22:03:54 <fridolin> it
22:04:02 <aleisha> it's definitely our favoured search engine
22:04:18 <tuxayo> > we try to create each new Koha with ir
22:04:18 <tuxayo> even the small ones?
22:04:33 <fridolin> it depends i think
22:04:40 <aleisha> it depends but yes we would put small ones on a shared ES server
22:04:41 <fridolin> we mostly have big ones indeed
22:04:57 <aleisha> the priority and testing has been with the larger ones who need to do more complex searching
22:05:44 <fridolin> ES rebuild is reeeeealy fast, it's great
22:06:06 <fridolin> and talking with the server with curl is fun ^^
22:06:40 <aleisha> the rebuild and searching speed is just lovely!
22:08:24 <tuxayo> Anything else?
22:08:24 <wahanui> it has been said that Anything else is necessarily going to be incremental.
22:08:35 <davidnind> #info Announcement: KohaLa Symposium 2022 -  16-18 May: https://koha-fr.org/symposium-2022/
22:09:02 <tuxayo> wise words wahanui
22:09:08 <tuxayo> thanks davidnind
22:09:52 <davidnind> Maybe for a future meeting some discussion on discovery layers - Aspen and Vufind seem to be gaining in popularity as a layer on top of Koha
22:10:02 <aleisha> good call davidnind
22:10:16 <davidnind> I'll add to the next agenda...
22:10:38 <tuxayo> good idea
22:11:06 <fridolin> nice, i dont know Aspen
22:11:28 <fridolin> Vufind is used by Thesaloniki University, a big Koha fan
22:11:52 <davidnind> Aspen Discovery: https://bywatersolutions.com/products/aspen-discovery
22:12:28 <fridolin> ooo it is from the Shire ^^
22:12:42 <thd> Aspen is / was based on VuFind.
22:12:50 <davidnind> :)
22:13:24 <tuxayo> Are discovery layers like the Koha OPAC but with more features?
22:14:07 <aleisha> i think it's like instead of the Koha OPAC, they would use a lot of koha APIs
22:14:22 <tuxayo> ok, it seems it can aggregate multiple sources of records
22:14:30 <aleisha> we recently implemented koha for Auckland University of Technology and they use VUfind for the OPAC instead of KOha
22:15:28 <davidnind> nice!
22:15:28 <fridolin> you can add the Bokeh portal then
22:15:29 <thd> None of these discovery systems generally manage post-coordinated subject headings well which certainly would require much effort to do well.
22:15:35 <aleisha> davidnind: it was a fun implementation! they sponsored a bunch more work for recalls too so ill have to get some of those fixes into 22.11 :)
22:15:47 <fridolin> https://www.afi-sa.net/bokeh
22:17:18 <davidnind> alesiha: excellent, feel free to add me to the bug(s) for sign-off
22:17:30 <aleisha> thank you!
22:17:47 * fridolin AFK
22:17:50 <tuxayo> fridolin: does Bokeh have an english presentation page?
22:17:51 <tuxayo> ok
22:18:08 <tuxayo> Any more topics?
22:18:39 <aleisha> nothing from me
22:19:29 <tuxayo> #topic Set time of next meeting
22:20:47 <aleisha> same time next month? whats the usual plan
22:20:57 <tuxayo> Next meeting in two week will target work hours for Europe and the Americas. Anyone from Oceania still aim to attend so we try to get a less terrible hours.
22:21:01 <tuxayo> fridolin: back?
22:21:59 <tuxayo> > same time next month? whats the usual plan
22:21:59 <tuxayo> We can keep alternating and yes that would be next month for a meeting which target NZ to Americas work hours.
22:23:01 <davidnind> alternating is good
22:24:32 <tuxayo> It would be the same hours.
22:24:33 <tuxayo> Unfortunately for dcook : please paddle to get Australia closer to Aotearoa so it's the same time zone :P
22:25:05 <aleisha> heh
22:25:45 <tuxayo> So without news from fridolin let's aim the same hours for next meeting. 25th 14:00 UTC
22:26:36 <tuxayo> #info Next meeting: 25 May 2022, 14 UTC
22:26:45 <tuxayo> #endmeeting